Muster out with Battle Dress?

[Chuckhazard]

Is it possible to muster out with Battle Dress?

By my reading, the armor benefit gets you subdermal up to a HEV Suit. Then it says if you get a second armor benefit you can take the Battle Dress skill.

It makes the Battle Dress skill seem sort of useless...

My solution now is letting players trade in multiple benefits for better stuff - like 3 armor benefits to get Battle Dress. Just curious if I read that right, and how other people may handle it...

 

[rust]

No chance to muster out with battle dress in any of my settings, except
perhaps with a completely demilitarized one (minus weapons, military
technology communicators and sensors, etc.). Battle dress is strictly mi-
litary gear and not much easier to get than a main battle tank.

 

[Sturn]

Is it possible to muster out with Battle Dress?....

It makes the Battle Dress skill seem sort of useless...

...

Core as written doesn't allow battle dress as an MO benefit.

As for being useless, there is always the option of stumbling upon a suit somehow (temporary if I was your referee). It seems realistic that military veterans may have several skills that are useful only rarely. At one time I was pretty good with a Mk19 Grenade Launcher, but as of yet I haven't gotten to use such skill in my civilian career (fingers crossed :twisted: ).

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

Battle Dress is not supposed to be something that civilians can get. If your characters want to wear Battle Dress, then they need to join/form a Mercenary Unit and get the permits necessary to buy that incredibly over-priced hunk of ceramic.

 

[Chuckhazard]

I'm not likely to drop a set in their laps, so odds are they'll never see it.

As for useless well yes I have a ton of useless skills... none quite so extravagant but in a game I usually expect things to be a little more awesome.

I do suppose military types getting that useless battle dress skill is balanced somewhat by getting skills at Rank 0, since most other careers don't get skills until rank 1.

 

[rust]

Battle Dress skill does not have to be completely useless. In my settings
it is the prerequisite to use powered hostile environment suits, because
normal Vacc Suit skill does not include the use of powered suits.

So, if the characters need someone to operate that deep sea hardsuit to
get at that cargo inside the crashed starship on the ocean floor, or if one
of them has to rescue people trapped on a high gravity planet, they look
to the guy with the Battle Dress skill.

 

[phavoc]

On the surface I'd say 'no'. It would kinda be like a tanker mustering out with his grav tank or something similar. And battledress is expensive and illegal to own for the most part. And highly restricted for merc units. So I wouldn't add it to your regular mustering out table.

However... maybe your character has a shady side, or he knows somebody who knows somebody who has a friend in supply that can write off components of a suit as 'destroyed'... In such a case I'd then say yeah, he could muster out with a full functional suit (or the pieces of one...). Course now it would be illegal, and the authorities who found him with it would take a dim view of such things. Might even generate a few more adventure threads having to hide it, or running from some authorities, or you have to do a few missions to make it legit.

 

[kristof65]

Sometimes those "useless skills" have useful applications, even if you don't have the device at hand.

FREX, if the PCs happen to be pinned down in a bunker by a group of Imperial Marines in BD, the guy with the BD skill is probably going to be the one that figures out "Hey, those guys are wearing the older Mark 42I models - they have a quirk where they'll freeze up and reboot if you hit the left EMP sensor with an overload." The group can take that knowledge, design a plan and execute it - a plan that would likely have no chance against a superior armed and armored force if it weren't for that one PCs useless knowledge.

As a player, I'm always looking for ways I can creatively, yet logically apply skills to situations, as a GM I like to reward creative thinking like that. As a GM, if my players aren't doing it for themselves, I'll often design scenarios/situations specifically so they can use those unused skills, no matter how bizarre. One of my favorites was the D&D game where the PC had to use her cooking skill to extract the party out of situation that would have probably been a TPK otherwise when they were captured and detained by a fat & utterly ruthless lord who mistook them for bandits.

 

[rinku]

Well, basic rules allow mustering out with Combat Armour, but it's within the referee's discretion to allow special circumstances. I'd be inclined to allow a Marine veteran who rolled multiple Armour results and already had the skill to *perhaps* get it in exchange for 2 or 3 Armour benefits. Maybe.

Battledress isn't quite in the restricted zone of fusion guns, and certainly is less restricted than nerve gas or nukes, but it IS a multi million credit piece of equipment and thus you need to be cautious about just giving it away. It should be possible to arrange finance on one, just as you would for a ship - including convincing the bank you can meet payments.

I don't agree that you should need it for a HEV suit - my take is that the main skill difference is in operating the enhanced strength servoes without breaking yourself or the immediate environment. Combat Armour and HEV suits are just tough vacc suits with some extra features.

What I WOULD say is that Battledress skill would be required to operate civilian, non-armoured (or lightly armoured) exoskeletons, perhaps for cargo loading, exploration or construction use. These would be much cheaper than the military version and thus more accessable. You could also rule that Battledress is the appropriate vehicle skill for any walker.

 

[rust]

I don't agree that you should need it for a HEV suit - my take is that the main skill difference is in operating the enhanced strength servoes without breaking yourself or the immediate environment. Combat Armour and HEV suits are just tough vacc suits with some extra features.

Not for a normal HEV suit, which is unpowered, but for a powered HEV suit. :wink:

 

[DFW]

As a player, I'm always looking for ways I can creatively, yet logically apply skills to situations, as a GM I like to reward creative thinking like that. As a GM, if my players aren't doing it for themselves, I'll often design scenarios/situations specifically so they can use those unused skills, no matter how bizarre.

That's good GMing.

 

[Jame Rowe]

Battle Dress is not supposed to be something that civilians can get. If your characters want to wear Battle Dress, then they need to join/form a Mercenary Unit and get the permits necessary to buy that incredibly over-priced hunk of ceramic.

Which is why I say not possible to M/O with one. It's not an issue of possibility, it's an issue of allowability, and it's simply not allowed.

Though if/when I run I generally limit it to anything up to cloth or poly carapace, or subdermal armor.

Note that I account Vac Suits as armor for M/O benefits.

 

[Treebore]

I allow them to have BD, its just unless they have a license their power core is removed and the suit must be locked up in an acceptably secure location, which must be a separate location from where the power core is stored.

Plus I have a bigger reason why, My Duke of Jewell Sector knows how dangerous the threats his sector faces are, so he actually allows military personnel retiring out with good service records to do so with Battle Dress, which by default in his sector has a certain device built into the helmet.

However, such people need to sign on to the permanent reserve forces to be called back into active service anytime the Duke so orders. Upon their death the suit of BD is to be turned into the nearest military post, TAS, or Scout base.

While in the Reserve Forces they are still expected to conduct themselves with honor and loyalty to the Imperium. So if they ever violate the laws in any serious manner the courts can rule as part of their punishment that they suit be returned to Sector inventories.

 

[rinku]

Well, honestly, battledress suits aren't really THAT awe-inspiring without the plasma or fusion weaponry. Armour level is a little bit better than combat armour and you get doubled strength. An unarmed G-Carrier or an armed small craft is just as (or more) militarily significant. They have elite cache, but I can't see any real problem with purchase by a qualified veteran in good standing. I'd have thought buying a laser rifle or grenades would attract much more scrutiny.

Main reason I see for them to be off the mustering out benefits list is their retail price. You can equip a SQUAD of combat armour troops AND give them gauss and/or laser rifles for the cost of one suit of battledress, and they only need civilian vacc suit training to do so. The only real MegaCredit mustering out benefit is the small craft you can get in the Navy (TAS membership and the higher levels of enhancement don't count as you can't sell them), and that one is tricky as you need another ship to take it outsystem.

@rust: Yep. We are in accord about powered HEV suits. I must have missed the word "powered" in your post. Sorry.

 

[justacaveman]

I didn't know there was any such thing as a Powered HEV suit.

I do let Battle Dress skill substitute for Vacc Suit skill.

I also let Marine characters MO with TL-13 basic Battle Dress (3 armour rolls). But, just because you have it, doesn't mean you'll get many opportunities to use it. Most places won't let take it off the ship. Some places may require it to be put into a lockdown mode that can only be removed by authorized personnel when you leave the planet etc.. Rather than forbidding it, I use it to bring the PC's to the attention of the local authorities. They always like that. If they want avoid the attention they have to conceal the armour, and hope the customs inspection fails to find it. This also means it's difficult for the PC 's to get to themselves etc..

 

[rinku]

The powered HEV suit was extrapolation. It's not a standard piece of equipment.

I'd allow any level of Battledress to confer Vacc-0, but not let it substitute per se. Having said that, there would be many tasks where Vacc *or* Battledress would be appropriate, in the same way you might be able to use Persuade *or* Diplomacy to obtain a goal.

 

[rust]

I didn't know there was any such thing as a Powered HEV suit.

I am a fan of water world settings, and these usually require some kind
of diving hardsuit to work on or near the ocean floor. Since such a suit
would be a lot more useful in a powered version, I designed several mo-
dels. We have used them so often in our games that I completely forgot
that they are not standard equipment.

 

[Lord High Munchkin]

I hope that 'Power Armour' deals with such (and for non-humanoids too).

I have a desire for players to visit a large gas giant....

 

[justacaveman]

I allow Battle Dress skill to substitute for Vacc Suit skill when determining what Vacc Suits you're qualified to wear, as with an HEV suit requiring Vacc Suit 2. I'd allow Battle Dress 2 to substitute bin such an instance. I'd also allow it when there seems to be no real difference between the skills.

I look at Battle Dress skill as a more advanced skill that encompasses Vacc Suit skill. This is because Battle Dress has all the features of a Vacc Suit ,but a Vacc Suit does not have all the features of Battle Dress.

 

[rust]

I look at Battle Dress skill as a more advanced skill that encompasses Vacc Suit skill. This is because Battle Dress has all the features of a Vacc Suit ,but a Vacc Suit does not have all the features of Battle Dress.

We treat it the same way, as a "Vacc Suit + X" skill, so a character who
has Battle Dress skill can always use a vacc suit that does not require a
higher level of skill.

We have also rules for "upgrading" from Vacc Suit skill to Battle Dress
skill, but this enables the character only to use powered suits, not their
weapons (if any), if he wants the military version he needs military trai-
ning.