movement rates

[juhanfg]

Looking at the tables in page 84 of the rulebook I'm a bit surprised.

It seems like for the average human it takes almost a minute to run 100 meters. What is this about?

Also, it seems like the average walking speed is 2.9km/h. I'm sorry but this fells a bit slow. I think in normal terrain this can go easily up to 4 km/h without putting any effort, and probably 5km/h.

Let me put you another example:

An average human character has dex=11, thus it has 2 combat actions and a movement rate of 4m. Therefore in a combat round (= 5s) it can run 16m, Therefore being able to run 100m in 31.25s...

Considering there are 12 combat rounds per minute: 12x16m = 192m per minute and not the 96 in the table. This is what shocked me of the table, who takes a minute to RUN 100m?

Considering that the world record of 100m is under 10s, That corresponds to moving 50m per round (5s),

It seems like they just considered 1 combat action per combat round.

This just extends to all the numbers in that table, making movement slower than I think it should be.

To be honest, the whole fixed movement rate for each species I find flawed. If I remember correctly in the rq4 manual (that is somewhere in the internet), the movement rate is calculated as mov=(dex+siz)/5 for humanoids and mov=(dex+siz)/3 for quadrupeds. I think this is a more realistic solution. The average human still ends up with a mov = 4m, but it is possible for humans to go up to mov=7m for someone with dex and siz = 18.

I think that the multipliers for running should probably be higher, But that the movement should be per combat round and not combat action, as the difference in number of combat actions would make to big a difference.

It might be that the table has an error and the only change necessary is "combat action" to "combat round" but if there is no change on the movement rate of everything it makes for a stupid table. A horse (mov=6m) would need more than 45 second to run 100m... and that just doesn't make sense.

So, I see the flaws, but I'm not sure how to fix it. making the variable movement is definitely an improvement, but doesn't fix the overall slow movement rate of everything.

Any ideas?

 

[soltakss]

Too complicated. Most people can run at around the same speed, give or take, unless they are trained athletes. Most people walk at around the same speed.

If you have a high Athletics then you should be able to run faster.

I don't reckon that SIZ is particularly important as someone could be really short and fat and not run very fast or very tall and thin and still not be able to run very fast.

DEX isn't particularly important, either, otherwise people who are good at "Slapsies"* would all be good sprinters.

Basically, if you want highly varied movement rates then make it as complicated as you want. I'm fairly happy with the way it is.

*What, you don't know what Slapsies is? Two people put their hands together, with both palms touching and fingertips nearly touching, then you take in in turns to quickly slap the other person's hand before they pull it away. If you succeed, you get another go, if you fail it's the other person's turn. A high DEX/Reaction Time is vitally important to playing this game without bursting into a flood of tears and complaining to your Mum that he's cheating again.

 

[juhanfg]

I don't reckon that SIZ is particularly important as someone could be really short and fat and not run very fast or very tall and thin and still not be able to run very fast.

DEX isn't particularly important, either, otherwise people who are good at "Slapsies"* would all be good sprinters.

SIZ is important in the sense that the bigger you are the longer your stride is going to be.

From the book: "Dexterity(DEX): a character agility, coordination and speed..."

The problem is that DEX is a characteristic that includes vary many different things, from manual dexterity to agility, so it can relate to movement rate.

 

[weasel_fierce]

thats kind of wonky, but honestly, I never use movement rates. "it'll take you 2 turns to get there" works for us

 

[soltakss]

Certainly, SIZ is important in that a 10m giant will cover distance faster than a 1m trollkin, but would SIZ 18 be much faster than SIZ 13?

In real life, how many 7 foot sprinters do you see?

But, yes, I suppose that SIZ and DEX could both play a part. However, I don't really see the need to make movement more complicated.

In our Praxian campaign, I play that daily movement is the same for all riding beasts, regardless of their individual movement. In combat, one might move faster than another and we use this when working out complex movement, but I use RQ3 movement and that is metres per SR and is so easy to work out.

Of course, I'm not saying your approach is wrong, as I am sure it would work just fine. It just isn't for me.

 

[juhanfg]

I guess my point was more the fact that the movement rates overall seem quite slow and I was surprised to see that.

I don't want to make anything more complicated and to be honest I'm not even to sure it is that important to have rules when common sense can apply.

The problem I had is that if you publish a table it should be logical and as it stand a horse running taking 45 seconds to run 100m is just plain absurd.

This is just another thing that I feel should be reviewed that's all. I agree that rq3 movement rules probably work in a more logical way.

 

[GoingDown]

An average human character has dex=11, thus it has 2 combat actions and a movement rate of 4m. Therefore in a combat round (= 5s) it can run 16m, Therefore being able to run 100m in 31.25s...

Any ideas?

Two things comes to my mind:

Movement rates for running are for speeds that you can keep up for hours. 100m sprinter couldn't run that fast for hours? So, you should compare rates to marathon runners to get more realistic results.

Usually marathon runners are using very light equipment, when your adventures are all packed up with weapons, armour and other stuff in backpack. That will slow them down.

 

[juhanfg]

An average human character has dex=11, thus it has 2 combat actions and a movement rate of 4m. Therefore in a combat round (= 5s) it can run 16m, Therefore being able to run 100m in 31.25s...

Any ideas?

Two things comes to my mind:

Movement rates for running are for speeds that you can keep up for hours. 100m sprinter couldn't run that fast for hours? So, you should compare rates to marathon runners to get more realistic results.

Usually marathon runners are using very light equipment, when your adventures are all packed up with weapons, armour and other stuff in backpack. That will slow them down.

I agree that it is not the same for long distance and sprint, but the tables have distances for 1 combat action, 1 minute, 1 hour and 12 hours (the last two don't include running distances). So the table doesn't deal with speeds that you can keep up for hours, but short distances.

To be honest, even for marathon runners the speeds are way off. Marathon runners run at almost 20km/h that translates to more than 330 meters in a minute. More than 3 times the values on the table.

I agree that carrying equipement will slow people down. That is pretty obvious, but doing 4 to 5 km/h with a backpack is not superhuman at all and in the tables you get 2.9 km/h.

As I said before I think the overall speed is too slow.

An additional problem is that as it stands, if you can move 4m per combat action, someone with DEX=12 can move 8m (4m x 2actions) per round and someone with DEX=13 can move 12m (4m x 3actions) per round wich is quite a jump. This is just an additional problem to the number of actions per round based on dexterity.

 

[weasel_fierce]

While I dont really use them, in defense of the rules written, I think this is assumed to be combat movement... i.e. moving around or dashing while trying not to get decapitated by someone

 

[juhanfg]

While I don't really use them, in defence of the rules written, I think this is assumed to be combat movement... i.e. moving around or dashing while trying not to get decapitated by someone

I'm sorry but the table gives distances for 1 and 12hours movement, so it cannot be combat movement.

I know I seem to be picking on all the arguments that everybody is making, i just don't know what the table really stand for, whether it takes into account number of actions per round (it doesn't seem that way).

The numbers they give is for a combat action, a minute an hour and 12 hours. The movement rates are calculated multiplying the movement times 12 for a minute (implying only one combat action per round), and then times 60 for an hour and times 12 for the 12 hour period.

If the movement rates are for combat, then why make the table for 1hour or 1day? If they are for normal movement (as I think they are) then everything is moving in slow motion. And I can run faster than a MRQ horse the 100m.

Finally, how do you deal with combat movement? Can you really move an additional 4m for every combat action?

Sorry for being so picky. I guess is being a physicist makes me picky with speed and movement.

 

[weasel_fierce]

ah, I never noticed that part so my bad

For actual combat movement, it does work out pretty well, I think.
Moving 4 yards in the time it takes to draw or swing a weapon sounds fairly reasonable to me

 

[vitalis6969]

think of the table as abstracted... strolling along, humming, looking at the sky, etc... Its a generalization for movement, nothing more. If you try to bring exactness into it, then there will just be a problem in figuring it out, just like what is happening now.

-V

 

[Halfbat]

It's also worth considering what, exactly, "normal" terrain is. 2.9km/hour certainly is a little slow on good roads and on the level, but in the "normal" terrain most often envisioned on fantasy worlds is a decent average maintained hour after hour. I think it works well to reflect the idea of having rest breaks and coping with awkward hiccups in the terrain - in other words, something matching the rule definition of 'Light Activity' on page 86.

For a _single_ hour, across known terrain and good tracks, then fine, the character should be able to go a little faster and, yes, I can agree that the speeds are slow.

Though it seems slow, the 34.8km/12-hour day listed is actually tough to maintain day after day with a full pack (even if within the - frankly generous - ENC guidelines of MRQ).