More Changes to System Generation rules?

[phavoc]

I read a recent article concerning the discovery of a "super" gas giant, 12 times the size of jupiter.

Along with some other recent postings regarding stellar and planetary classification limitations imposed by UWP, I'm wondering if the existing system doesn't need to be modified somewhat to take into account new information we are learning about the universe?

Obviously it doesn't affect play style, but I think some ref's would be interested in having more variety in regards to their game settings to run adventures in.

http://news.yahoo.com/super-jupiter-discovery-dwarfs-solar-systems-largest-planet-130957697.html

 

[F33D]

Along with some other recent postings regarding stellar and planetary classification limitations imposed by UWP, I'm wondering if the existing system doesn't need to be modified somewhat to take into account new information we are learning about the universe?

The existing system has nothing to do with reality. But, until we have actually studied a good number of solar systems (to date we've only studied ours) you can make up a system that caters to what you want.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

You need to reread the article, or the article was wrong. The planet/brown dwarf would not have been 12 times the size of Jupiter, it would have had 12 times Jupiter's mass. An interesting interaction between gravity and heat pressure is that as the mass of a planet increases above Jupiter's mass, the size doesn't actually increase that much until the mass reaches the point where nuclear fusion can occur (about 25 Jupiter masses). At that point the star balloons out due to the added energy created by the fusion.

However, your general point is still valid. There is nothing in the current world generation system that can create the newly discovered "Super Earth's" - Rocky worlds with 2-5 times Earth's mass. They would be world size C or D and start crossing the line into small gas giants.

In CT, they did at one point break up the designation for Gas Giant into "Small Gas Giant" (SGG) and Large Gas Giant (LGG). SGGs were like Neptune and Uranus, while the LGGs were like Saturn and Jupiter.

Now, we probably need THREE desigations for Gas Giants. Perhaps something like:
Small Gas Giant - Like Neptune and Uranus
Medium Gas Giant - Like Saturn and Jupiter
Large Gas Giant - From 2-20 Jupiter masses, not much bigger is size, but a lot more mass and gravity and heat.

 

[Reynard]

On top of all the new objects found within systems, astronomers have now discovered a rogue planet and assume there may be many more. Add this to brown dwarves possibly being plentiful and the galaxy could be a crowded place beyond typical solar systems. The only game system I know addressing this is Alterity RPG's Cosmos 2 universe builder. The system creates 12x12x12 sectors and populates it with stars of every H-R diagram classification including, on the average, several dozen 'minor systems' of red and brown dwarves. So, you can have a more realistic system featuring LOTS of objects or you have a system that features enough to be useful without eye candy that will never be in any campaign.

I know Mongoose tends towards lean and mean minimalist but, personally, I'd like them to remake the Extended System Generator because I'm one of those detail enthusiasts especially now that Heaven & Earth doesn't work with Windows 7.

 

[dragoner]

H&E doesn't work? Mine still is, unless there is something wrong and I'm not noticing it.

 

[Reynard]

It worked fine on my computer under XP but keeps asking for a dll on my machine with W7.

Recently I found a BASIC language (Liberty BASIC) and am programming Mongoose's combined Core/Scouts system generator including the space opera and hard science rules. This is one of those times I'm reminded I don't need super-jupiters and the brown dwatf companions are abstracted.

 

[F33D]

H&E doesn't work? Mine still is, unless there is something wrong and I'm not noticing it.

Most people can't get it to work on Windows 7... It's an old pgm that needs to be updated

 

[dragoner]

It worked fine on my computer under XP but keeps asking for a dll on my machine with W7.

It does it as well on my w7, asking for the twisted pixel dll, but I just hit cancel and run it anyways, seems to work fine without it.

 

[dragoner]

H&E doesn't work? Mine still is, unless there is something wrong and I'm not noticing it.

Most people can't get it to work on Windows 7... It's an old pgm that needs to be updated

Which looks like the author of Deneb is doing right now.

edit: looks like he is building his own, we'll see how far it goes.

 

[SSWarlock]

If the problem is the file CTL3D32.DLL, you can download it and install under the C:windows/system32/ path.

Edit: Wrong. Just downloading and installing the file under the path doesn't solve the problem. I tried registering the file from the CMD line but even that didn't solve the problem. However, my version of H&E does seem to work even when I click <Cancel> on the error message that pops up ever time I boot up H&E. But then it did that before I did the download/install/register attempt. :?

 

[dragoner]

If the problem is the file CTL3D32.DLL, you can download it and install under the C:windows/system32/ path.

Yes, mine does that but the program starts anyways. What does that dll do?

 

[SSWarlock]

What does that dll do?

It's a Windows 3D Controls Library. I'm not sure what Stuart Ferris (the software author) used it for. All the mapping (world and system) are 2D, not 3D.

 

[dragoner]

What does that dll do?

It's a Windows 3D Controls Library.

What is it for? H&E still makes worlds and sectors on my machine, maps as well.

 

[F33D]

If the problem is the file CTL3D32.DLL, you can download it and install under the C:windows/system32/ path.

Edit: Wrong. Just downloading and installing the file under the path doesn't solve the problem. I tried registering the file from the CMD line but even that didn't solve the problem. However, my version of H&E does seem to work even when I click <Cancel> on the error message that pops up ever time I boot up H&E. But then it did that before I did the download/install/register attempt. :?

I've tried every remedy that has been suggested. Doesn't work on my system at all. It is hit or miss from the feedback I've gotten over the last couple of years.

 

[SSWarlock]

Most people can't get it to work on Windows 7... It's an old pgm that needs to be updated

Not going to happen. The author stopped supporting it years ago and retained ownership of all the source code.

 

[F33D]

Most people can't get it to work on Windows 7... It's an old pgm that needs to be updated

Not going to happen. The author stopped supporting it years ago and retained ownership of all the source code.

I figured that as he can't be compensated for his work on the product.

 

[dragoner]

So is this mendacity on purpose?


Here is the real story from about 3 1/2 years ago:

Some of you may remember me I'm the guy who wrote World Builder Deluxe, Heaven & Earth and was working on Heaven & Earth 2. Unfortunately, I gave up working on HE2 due the constant interference from real life and I have not been able to undertake any further work on the project and never will.

However, my hard drive contains several folders full of Visual Basic source code for the project and I am prepared to pass it on to another programmer to see if they can take the project through to fruitition.

Anyone who participated in the Beta will know that the Sector Module was very close to completion, as was the Universe Module. Some work had been carried out on the System/World Module, but this was not significantly advanced to warrant a Beta.

If anyone wishes to consider taking this task on please reply to this thread.

Unfortunately, I have not kept any of the builds for WBD or HE1, so please don't ask me for those.

Regards,

Stuart Ferris

 

[F33D]

So is this mendacity on purpose?

Who's being mendacious?

 

[Reynard]

Yes! Ignored the missing DLL message and the program continues! Thanks for the heads up.

I'm still going to build a sector builder using Mongoose's rules. I like the Space Opera and Hard Science variants. Oh, a question on my mind for some time concerning the Environmental Limits on page 179. Should that read a world below the TL limit for that atmosphere be raised to the minimum or it means the world is barren because the TL failed? I can see the latter based on OTU history and the effects of the Long Night reducing worlds to lower TLs. Makes for more unsettled worlds or even 'graveyard' worlds to explore.

 

[F33D]

Oh, a question on my mind for some time concerning the Environmental Limits on page 179. Should that read a world below the TL limit for that atmosphere be raised to the minimum or it means the world is barren because the TL failed?

The default is to raise it so the world is viable. Otherwise, set demographics to 0 as everyone dies. Which should only be done for special cases.

<I originally had almost that table as a house rule in '80, wonder how MGT got a hold of it>