Monster book

[Adept]

From what I've had time to see the monster book seems to follow RQ-3 very closely. I'm not impressed.

RQ-3 upped the protectionvalues of armour from RQ-2, and especially the animals and monsters had their AP increased a lot. RQ-3 is the game where you could hardly get a hunting knife through the skin of a pray animal. Since MRQ wen't back to the lower AP levels for armour, why didn't they adjust the creatures.

There are lot of stuff that could have been done better. Durin the RQ-3 glorantha era, better stats were published for the Gorp, that gave a saner (variable) damage for their acid. 1d6 points, instead of a flat 8 points for the average specimen, I seem to recall.

The worst part? That must be the dragonewts. RQ-3 really messed this up.

The dragonewt lifecycle has five stages, not four. The fourth stage doesn't becme a dragon, but the Inhuman King, the ruler of dragonewts, and the being that is needed for the dragonewt reincarnation to work.

The dragonewts also kept the insane armour values of RQ-3, instead of the much lower ones of RQ-2, again despite the fact that armour values for characters have gone down.

This no doubt means that the upcoming EWF stuff will also suffer from confusion.

 

[gamesmeister]

The dragonewts also kept the insane armour values of RQ-3, instead of the much lower ones of RQ-2, again despite the fact that armour values for characters have gone down.

Typical armour comparison between RQ2 and MRQ

Crested: RQ2=1 AP, MRQ=1AP
Beaked: RQ2=3 AP but could wear additional armour over the top, MRQ=6AP
Tailed Priest: RQ2=2AP, MRQ=3AP
Full Priest: RQ2=10AP, MRQ=9AP

In other words, not much has changed in 25 years

I agree that they shouldn't have skipped the Inhuman King and his purpose, but as you're never likely to meet him it won't make a lot of difference to 99.9% of players anyway. Perhaps they'll cover that in more detail in a later supplement.

 

[homerjsinnott]

The dragonewts also kept the insane armour values of RQ-3, instead of the much lower ones of RQ-2, again despite the fact that armour values for characters have gone down.

Typical armour comparison between RQ2 and MRQ

Crested: RQ2=1 AP, MRQ=1AP
Beaked: RQ2=3 AP but could wear additional armour over the top, MRQ=6AP
Tailed Priest: RQ2=2AP, MRQ=3AP
Full Priest: RQ2=10AP, MRQ=9AP

In other words, not much has changed in 25 years

I agree that they shouldn't have skipped the Inhuman King and his purpose, but as you're never likely to meet him it won't make a lot of difference to 99.9% of players anyway. Perhaps they'll cover that in more detail in a later supplement.

I would have thought that the Inhiman King would be very promenent in 2nd age Glorantha, stats may not be needed but a brief paragraph about his position/function would have been appropriate.

Perhaps it is world specific and he doesnt exist outside Glorantha.

 

[soltakss]

The dragonewt lifecycle has five stages, not four. The fourth stage doesn't becme a dragon, but the Inhuman King, the ruler of dragonewts, and the being that is needed for the dragonewt reincarnation to work.

Yes, the Dragonewts do have 5 stages and the Inhuman King (Dragonet) is the final stage. However, the Imhuman King chooses to remain as a Dragonet and not become a True Dragon. Full Priest/RulerDragonets' next stage in their evolution is True Dragon. It's just that some choose to remain Full Priests and some choose to become Inhuman Kings. Both actions stunt their draconic spiritual growth and progression.

But, yes, they should have remembered to include the Inhuman King as the Fifth Stage Dragonewt.

As to armour, they are quite reasonable. Dragonewts should be tough. RQM has armour-ignoring attacks, so having a lot of armour means diddly-squat anyway.

I thought Monsters was OK. It's the equivavalent of RQ3's Gloranthan Bestiary, but has a few different monsters and some impressive ones (Mother of Monsters/Crimson Bat). I've only looked through it quickly and the illustrations look good, on the whole, and the stats themselves look reasonable.

I was a little disappointed that there is an Echolocation Trait but trolls don't get it, instead they have Dark Sight and Earth Sense, so they can see in Pitch Darnkess as if night and can fight as normal underground in darkness as long as their foes are less than 10m away. Whoop-de-do. RQ Trolls have always had Dark Sense, which is echolocation. Also, Trolls don't seem to use Troll Mauls and more, which is a shame as 2D8 damage is always fun for a GM. Great Trolls don't use Great Swords either, so Cragspider will not be pleased, even though her Fireblade spell has been downgraded so it's not that important.

I see they have goblins, orcs and halflings. The goblins and orcs differ from the Five Fantasy Monsters stats, so it's still worth buying Seraphim Guard's PDF.

There are a few niggles, Broos don't have a chance for chaotic features and the chaotic features table itself is pretty rubbish. There are werewolves but no other type of werebeast. The spirits are straight out of the RQ3 Creatures book, but well converted, Healing Spirits work well with Resilience rolls.

So, all in all, it's pretty good, despite the occasional grumble.

 

[Adept]

I would have thought that the Inhiman King would be very promenent in 2nd age Glorantha, stats may not be needed but a brief paragraph about his position/function would have been appropriate.

Perhaps it is world specific and he doesnt exist outside Glorantha.

Bah. The mistake is there because the RQ-3 writeup got sloppy and and didn't make things clear. The Glorantha book talks about the Inhuman king, but the Monster Book dragonewts have been lifted straight from the RQ-3 Glorantha booklet that came with the boxed set.

 

[Adept]

The dragonewts also kept the insane armour values of RQ-3, instead of the much lower ones of RQ-2, again despite the fact that armour values for characters have gone down.

Typical armour comparison between RQ2 and MRQ

Crested: RQ2=1 AP, MRQ=1AP
Beaked: RQ2=3 AP but could wear additional armour over the top, MRQ=6AP
Tailed Priest: RQ2=2AP, MRQ=3AP
Full Priest: RQ2=10AP, MRQ=9AP

In other words, not much has changed in 25 years

Huh? Warrior armour 3 => armour 6 is a pretty darn big difference. Those are the 'newts player characters fight with.

And you didn't get things right. Full Priest has FIVE points of armour, definitely not ten.

So, in RQ2

Scout AP 1
Warrior AP3
Tailed P AP 2
Full Priest AP 5

One could extrapolate that the Inhuman King could have AP 7, or something like that. Or parhaps 3, as he is the magical ruler instead of a warrior or a questing hero.

 

[Adept]

Yes, the Dragonewts do have 5 stages and the Inhuman King (Dragonet) is the final stage. However, the Imhuman King chooses to remain as a Dragonet and not become a True Dragon. Full Priest/RulerDragonets' next stage in their evolution is True Dragon. It's just that some choose to remain Full Priests and some choose to become Inhuman Kings. Both actions stunt their draconic spiritual growth and progression.

That's a weird take on it. How often do you think True Dragons are born on Glorantha? There is just one Inhuman King (at least in Dragon Pass), and when he dies, he reincarnates as a True Dragon. There are not multiple Inhuman Kings around. The Dragonet stuff in RQ-3 was strange and confusing.

 

[CharlieMonster]

From what I've had time to see the monster book seems to follow RQ-3 very closely. I'm not impressed.

Actually I really liked it, there are a few omissions, sure like Praxian Giant Baboons and the other Praxian beasts, but apart from that, I think it is, by and large well written, comprehensive and nicely laid out. I especially like the "Monsters as Resources" chapter.

 

[Rurik]

Actually I really liked it, there are a few omissions, sure like Praxian Giant Baboons and the other Praxian beasts, but apart from that, I think it is, by and large well written, comprehensive and nicely laid out. I especially like the "Monsters as Resources" chapter.

No Baboons! :shock:



:evil:

 

[soltakss]

That's a weird take on it. How often do you think True Dragons are born on Glorantha? There is just one Inhuman King (at least in Dragon Pass), and when he dies, he reincarnates as a True Dragon. There are not multiple Inhuman Kings around. The Dragonet stuff in RQ-3 was strange and confusing.

Going back to an RQ3 source, the Glorantha Book, p25:
"Presumably a ruler dragonewt meditates upon the secrets of dragonhood in preparation for the final metamorphosis. Such a dragonewt will, one day, awake to find itself a full dragon. It will then depart from its nest, to go to wherever dragons go."

and
"Sometimes a ruler dragonewt refuses to enter dragonhood. It then remains on earth in life. The reason for doing this is unknown. Nor is known the extent of the power of the dragonet" ... " This stage is usually only present at the dragonewt site called the Dragon's Eye in Dragon Pass, the ancestral home."

A ruler can either become a dragon or potpone its next phase. If there is an Inhuman King still around, the ruler is reborn as a ruler. If the Inhuman King dies and does not come back, another ruler can become the Inhuman King, if it has not already become a dragon.

 

[Trifletraxor]

As to armour, they are quite reasonable. Dragonewts should be tough. RQM has armour-ignoring attacks, so having a lot of armour means diddly-squat anyway.

Do you mean that this armour-ignoring attacks also ignore natural armour???

SGL.

 

[gamesmeister]

The dragonewts also kept the insane armour values of RQ-3, instead of the much lower ones of RQ-2, again despite the fact that armour values for characters have gone down.

Typical armour comparison between RQ2 and MRQ

Crested: RQ2=1 AP, MRQ=1AP
Beaked: RQ2=3 AP but could wear additional armour over the top, MRQ=6AP
Tailed Priest: RQ2=2AP, MRQ=3AP
Full Priest: RQ2=10AP, MRQ=9AP

In other words, not much has changed in 25 years

Huh? Warrior armour 3 => armour 6 is a pretty darn big difference. Those are the 'newts player characters fight with.

And you didn't get things right. Full Priest has FIVE points of armour, definitely not ten.

So, in RQ2

Scout AP 1
Warrior AP3
Tailed P AP 2
Full Priest AP 5

One could extrapolate that the Inhuman King could have AP 7, or something like that. Or parhaps 3, as he is the magical ruler instead of a warrior or a questing hero.

No, that's wrong.

There's nothing in the Monsters book to suggest Beaked dragonewts wear manufactured armour, in fact the illustrations suggest they dont as their scales look pretty solid. Therefore it would appear they have a static value of 6 AP. In RQ2, this was not the case, and while they only had 3 pt skin, they would often wear armour to augment their hide, which usually took them over the current 6 pts. For an example, take a look at the beaked dragonewts in Griffin Mountain.

The full priest had 5 pts of hide, but again that was backed up with 5 pt scale armour as standard, taking it up to 10 (RQ2 rulebook, p79).

 

[homerjsinnott]

I seem to remember it saying somewhere that Dragonewts may or may not wear armour and the armour they have may or may not be natural!
I think it's more fun to leave it that vague.

Another niggle, not with the monsters book but with a monster, is that the Dwarf cannot use the axe or the x-bow he is carrying because he doesn't have the Dex!
Hurray for integrated systems.
When is 2nd Ed comming out?




I can see it now on the side of a box of plate:

WARNING! Wearing armour may stunt your spiritual growth.

Or

Armour is bad for your spiritual health.



Dragonewt One "Are these low or high tar?"


Shopkeeper, "Are you sixteen in seven different virues?

Crested Dragonewt, [in teenagery voice] "Yeh, corse I am."

 

[Adept]

A ruler can either become a dragon or potpone its next phase. If there is an Inhuman King still around, the ruler is reborn as a ruler. If the Inhuman King dies and does not come back, another ruler can become the Inhuman King, if it has not already become a dragon.

I go with the RQ-2 / King of Sartar material, rather than the RQ-3 stuff you re-qoute. Greg Stafford certainly still does, and it's his setting.

 

[soltakss]

[
So, in RQ2

Scout AP 1
Warrior AP3
Tailed P AP 2
Full Priest AP 5

One could extrapolate that the Inhuman King could have AP 7, or something like that. Or parhaps 3, as he is the magical ruler instead of a warrior or a questing hero.

Plunder has Dragonewt Skin Armour, which is funky stuff, by the way. There is a nice table that shows the AP of different types of Dragonewt Armour. Obviously, these are less than the skin AP, due to processing. But they are:

Scout AP 2
Warrior AP 5
Tailed P AP 3
Full Priest AP 8
Inhuman King AP 25

So, if processed armour is 25, then his actual skin armour would be higher. What might be interesting is to use the new armour creation rules to work out what the original armour would be. He's certainly more like a dragon than an dragonewt, though.

 

[Adept]

No, that's wrong.

There's nothing in the Monsters book to suggest Beaked dragonewts wear manufactured armour, in fact the illustrations suggest they dont as their scales look pretty solid.

Where did you see me arguing that they wear anything of the sort? That's a very strange thing to say.

 

[Adept]

[
So, in RQ2

Scout AP 1
Warrior AP3
Tailed P AP 2
Full Priest AP 5

One could extrapolate that the Inhuman King could have AP 7, or something like that. Or parhaps 3, as he is the magical ruler instead of a warrior or a questing hero.

Plunder has Dragonewt Skin Armour, which is funky stuff, by the way. There is a nice table that shows the AP of different types of Dragonewt Armour. Obviously, these are less than the skin AP, due to processing. But they are:

Scout AP 2
Warrior AP 5
Tailed P AP 3
Full Priest AP 8
Inhuman King AP 25

So, if processed armour is 25, then his actual skin armour would be higher. What might be interesting is to use the new armour creation rules to work out what the original armour would be. He's certainly more like a dragon than an dragonewt, though.

What do you mean less?? They have much higher protection when made into armour, than the AP they give the original newt. Check out the numbers man!

Scout AP 1 => AP 2
Warrior AP 3 => AP 5
Tailed P AP 2 => AP 3
Full P AP 5 => AP 8

The inhuman king re-incarnates into a true-dragon, so trapping a portion of it's spirit into it's hide and making it into armour could indeed result in something rather epic. I wouldn't really like to see anybody trying that though.

 

[soltakss]

Sorry, I didn't check the RQ2 stats as well as the RQ3 and RQM stats and Plunder.

However, extrapolating that the Inhuman King has 7 or 3 APs when Inhuman King armour has a nominal 25 APs is wrong. maybe Inhuman King has 20 APs.

 

[gamesmeister]

No, that's wrong.

There's nothing in the Monsters book to suggest Beaked dragonewts wear manufactured armour, in fact the illustrations suggest they dont as their scales look pretty solid.

Where did you see me arguing that they wear anything of the sort? That's a very strange thing to say.

Sorry, didn't mean it like that.

I was just referring to your comment that the beaked dragonewts armour had risen from 3 to 6, which as you say is a big jump. My argument is that in earlier versions they could wear armour, whereas in the new version they can't. That armour they used to wear brought them up to the current levels, meaning both versions are pretty much comparable.

 

[Adept]

Sorry, didn't mean it like that.

I was just referring to your comment that the beaked dragonewts armour had risen from 3 to 6, which as you say is a big jump. My argument is that in earlier versions they could wear armour, whereas in the new version they can't. That armour they used to wear brought them up to the current levels, meaning both versions are pretty much comparable.

Ok, I guess it's just a difference in perspective.

I hated the "heaviest armour and biggest weapons" feeling of RQ-3 in the years when I played and ran it myself. Especially now, when I think of a warrior species that has the equivalent of good Cuirboulle leather armour, without any encumberance, I think they are pretty darn well protected. No need for additional armour there.

Heck, the warrior dragonewts tend to be excellent individual fighters, and in addtion they are immortal! There is no need to make them have really heavy armour on top of that.