alex_greene
Guest
Who's bought this book? What do you think of it?
Mongoose Alien Module 4 - Zhodani
- Thread starter alex_greene
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I still really don't know what to make of them. Soviet style party control, eastern caste-based exoticism, the penultimate Star Trek Federation run entirely by benevolent mind-melded Vulcans? The art with the goofy Carnac turbans really doesn't help either. The whole race just feels cobbled together from dated components.
It's possible I missed something, or maybe more evocative art direction would have helped me pick up on cultural elements that aren't so easy to describe, but I don't feel I could run a game set there based on the information provided. There's just not enough juicy "show me don't tell me" cultural and political fluff and what is there doesn't exactly make me sit up and think I really want to use these guys. Instead I think over to Fading Suns' Kurgans and wonder how I could slip some of those cultural elements in to make the Zhodani actually interesting much in the same way I compare the Sword Worlders to the Vuldrok Star-Nation.
I haven't looked at it in a while. I haven't gotten rid of it either. I'm kinda hoping this thread brings out folks who love the Zhodani and possibly this product as well. Maybe they can help me see something in them that I'm missing other than the Traveller nostalgia-fan angle.
It's possible I missed something, or maybe more evocative art direction would have helped me pick up on cultural elements that aren't so easy to describe, but I don't feel I could run a game set there based on the information provided. There's just not enough juicy "show me don't tell me" cultural and political fluff and what is there doesn't exactly make me sit up and think I really want to use these guys. Instead I think over to Fading Suns' Kurgans and wonder how I could slip some of those cultural elements in to make the Zhodani actually interesting much in the same way I compare the Sword Worlders to the Vuldrok Star-Nation.
I haven't looked at it in a while. I haven't gotten rid of it either. I'm kinda hoping this thread brings out folks who love the Zhodani and possibly this product as well. Maybe they can help me see something in them that I'm missing other than the Traveller nostalgia-fan angle.
It gave me exactly what I wanted. I have used the Zhodani rather extensively over the years as antagonists, so fleshed out many of the things suggested/mentioned about them in the resources I own. So I was looking for a book that further defined those aspects than I have and to give me new ideas to use, and this book delivered. So I am happy with it.
Now am I using the material completely as written? No! Like I said, I have created my own spins over the decades, so that is how I will primarily go, but now I have a lot of spices to add.
Now am I using the material completely as written? No! Like I said, I have created my own spins over the decades, so that is how I will primarily go, but now I have a lot of spices to add.
I did enjoy it.
Not everything but on the whole a nice addition to the line.
I especially liked the tie up of the Empress Wave and the real motive for launching the Fifth Frontier War.
While I think the model of the race book and the sector setting is good I know I'll never use the sector itself.
I liked the ships, there is a very different design philosophy to Imperial vessels, even small ships carry fighters for example.
Not everything but on the whole a nice addition to the line.
I especially liked the tie up of the Empress Wave and the real motive for launching the Fifth Frontier War.
While I think the model of the race book and the sector setting is good I know I'll never use the sector itself.
I liked the ships, there is a very different design philosophy to Imperial vessels, even small ships carry fighters for example.
alex_greene
Guest
This has proven helpful. Thanks.
I have bit the bullet, then, and bought the PDF.
I'll give it a onceover and come back with my comments, presently.
I have bit the bullet, then, and bought the PDF.
I'll give it a onceover and come back with my comments, presently.
alex_greene
Guest
Still compiling a review of the book, but this morning one thought stood out free and clear above all the rest.
Thank Goodness Mongoose did not decide to start portraying the Zhodani with bumpy foreheads.
Thank Goodness Mongoose did not decide to start portraying the Zhodani with bumpy foreheads.
Tobias
Banded Mongoose
I have a question:
The light and heavy Zhodani warbots, as well as the trashbot, are originally from DGP's 101 Robots. Does Mongoose have a license/permission/whatever to reuse designs from that publication and does this mean (one can hope) that it will be possible to republish other DGP stuff or adapt it to MGT?
(Maybe this did already happen with "Robot". I don't have that product.)
The light and heavy Zhodani warbots, as well as the trashbot, are originally from DGP's 101 Robots. Does Mongoose have a license/permission/whatever to reuse designs from that publication and does this mean (one can hope) that it will be possible to republish other DGP stuff or adapt it to MGT?
(Maybe this did already happen with "Robot". I don't have that product.)
Tobias said:
In the case of the robots (and all things Zhodani), I was trying to find any example of Zhodani robots in past Traveller materials and the DGP ones were the only ones I could find. So I asked Roger if I could use them; I've tried to keep in contact with him over the years. The Vargr subspecies which appeared in Mongoose's Vargr book are also DGP and were used with permission.
Sadly, there is no blanket license, these two items were specifically asked for. I didn't mean to get anyone's hopes up...
Added note: There might be a vehicle as well. I can't remember off the top of my head.
Tobias
Banded Mongoose
Yeah, the attack speeders and one of the G-Carriers are from 101 Vehicles. (So is the Grav Tank, but it was also in the GDW-copyright Rebellion sourcebook, so that one was no problem in any case.) Too bad about not having a general license, but then again, it was only a faint hope.donm61873 said:
Tobias
Banded Mongoose
I love the Zhodani. This product... I don't wanna sound too negative. It is what I should realistically have expected it to be: A decent job of compiling previously written information about the Zhodani and bringing it into a new game system. It does make a few additions and changes to previous canon, some of which I like, some of which I don't like. It didn't make me like MGT's system and layout any more than I liked them before (not much) and the art, as in the few other MGT products I've read, is nothing to write home about either. All IMHO.OddjobXL said:
The problem with me is that I initially approached this product with the same unrealistic hopes I had for GTAR1 (the GURPS Traveller Zhodani module): That it would be a fresh look at the Zhodani, using previous materials as a base but rewritten entirely, providing lots of color and many examples with an eye to roleplaying, with crisp layout and pleasing illustrations, carried by an enlightened noncynical mindset trying to portray them as a fascinating, positive culture from their own point of view.
In short words, I wanted it to be what DPG's MT Alien series (the zenith of Traveller Alien material and Traveller supplements in general) was for the Aslan, Solomani, Vilani and Vargr. It isn't that. It is "just" a solid writing job bringing together a lot of information from previous material, smoothening it a bit and making very modest additions.
Now for newer Traveller players, or those who do not have access to the CT and GT materials about the Zhodani, this is fine. It is as comprehensive a product as you can get for the purpose of updating these materials for MGT, even if I disagree with some of the reinterpretations and additions for matters of taste.
But for someone like me who knows the old material in and out, I'm sorry to say this was not a worthwhile purchase.
alex_greene
Guest
But the art ... those are some of the whitest Zhodani you know.
GypsyComet
Emperor Mongoose
Tobias said:
As another one of those who have spent a lot of time thinking about the Zhodani, I'd like to hear more about what you disagree with.
As for the DGP materials, I'm one of the dissenters who thinks they did more damage to the Aslan than good, broke even on the Vargr and Solomani, and really only added value to the Vilani. That is fodder for a different topic (possibly on a different board), however.
Tobias
Banded Mongoose
Okay, first of all let me repeat that I do regard this product as a good one, to put my later niggles in context. It was just not made with me in mind. Actually, some parts were made with me in mind, so here's some praise first: I really like the Addaxur. Finally, a proper treatment of these guys, and one that meets my expectations on how Traveller minor races should be described. Much better than the Spacemaster graft-on from GTAR1. I also liked the new starships, the new illustrations for some of the old starships, and I'll probably find some use for the sector description stuff. Writing and design are of good quality.
That said, my disagreements (which as I said are a matter of taste and preferences):
1. The Consulate is given a more monolithic spin than in AM4. In MGTA4, all government in Zhodani space is a component of the overall consulate government and follows the same structure. In AM4, local governments could be as diverse as in the Imperium, and could include proles in the government structure as well. Which brings me to...
2. ... the more rigid caste system as opposed to to AM4. MGTA4 follows GTAR1 in this regard: Proles are a definite underclass who cannot achieve officer rank in the military and who are limited to the lower tiers of economically oriented careers as well. This was not the case in AM4 and it is apparently not matched by the character creation rules in MGTA4 either, though I'll freely admit I'm not too well versed in the MGT rules.
There are basically two models here:
a). The one tentatively alluded to in the first JTAS article on the Zhodani, which paints Proles as the equivalents of unfree peasants in a rigid caste system. GT followed and expanded on this model, and apparently so does MGT, although the character creation rules are ambiguous (to me.) The JTAS article, which was more of the sketch, was actually not that restrictive and in retrospective can be seen to support either model.
b). The one established in AM4 which makes it quite clear that Proles can advance in any career except government, although they need to be very lucky and competent to advance as military officiers. The social role of Proles more closely parallels that of commoners in many 17th or 18th century monarchies in this model.
I've always followed model b). GTAR1 strongly established model a), and MGTA4 seems to follow suit, although it remains slightly ambiguous, probably due to the attempt to reconcile conflicting previous materials.
3. The inclusion and treatment of the Empress Wave. Then again, nothing short of excising the Virus and Empress Wave from the TU entirely is going to please me, and that's exactly what I'm going to do in any campaign I run.
4. The "hybrid" chirpers. Not buying the concept. Then again, I can just write it off as a crazy fringe theory or a rumor and simply use the explanation that the Qiknavra Chirpers were casteless droyne which did not "degenerate" as much as others (probably due to a large number of sports in the initial population or something like that.)
5. The portrayal of reeducation as some sort of punishment that you can try to avoid, can be "exonerated" from and that will apparently get you sent to an endurance-reducing gulag is something that does not rhyme with my impression of the Zhodani either. On the other hand, the random traits table includes several entries I have trouble seeing in well-adjusted Zhodani.
That said, my disagreements (which as I said are a matter of taste and preferences):
1. The Consulate is given a more monolithic spin than in AM4. In MGTA4, all government in Zhodani space is a component of the overall consulate government and follows the same structure. In AM4, local governments could be as diverse as in the Imperium, and could include proles in the government structure as well. Which brings me to...
2. ... the more rigid caste system as opposed to to AM4. MGTA4 follows GTAR1 in this regard: Proles are a definite underclass who cannot achieve officer rank in the military and who are limited to the lower tiers of economically oriented careers as well. This was not the case in AM4 and it is apparently not matched by the character creation rules in MGTA4 either, though I'll freely admit I'm not too well versed in the MGT rules.
There are basically two models here:
a). The one tentatively alluded to in the first JTAS article on the Zhodani, which paints Proles as the equivalents of unfree peasants in a rigid caste system. GT followed and expanded on this model, and apparently so does MGT, although the character creation rules are ambiguous (to me.) The JTAS article, which was more of the sketch, was actually not that restrictive and in retrospective can be seen to support either model.
b). The one established in AM4 which makes it quite clear that Proles can advance in any career except government, although they need to be very lucky and competent to advance as military officiers. The social role of Proles more closely parallels that of commoners in many 17th or 18th century monarchies in this model.
I've always followed model b). GTAR1 strongly established model a), and MGTA4 seems to follow suit, although it remains slightly ambiguous, probably due to the attempt to reconcile conflicting previous materials.
3. The inclusion and treatment of the Empress Wave. Then again, nothing short of excising the Virus and Empress Wave from the TU entirely is going to please me, and that's exactly what I'm going to do in any campaign I run.
4. The "hybrid" chirpers. Not buying the concept. Then again, I can just write it off as a crazy fringe theory or a rumor and simply use the explanation that the Qiknavra Chirpers were casteless droyne which did not "degenerate" as much as others (probably due to a large number of sports in the initial population or something like that.)
5. The portrayal of reeducation as some sort of punishment that you can try to avoid, can be "exonerated" from and that will apparently get you sent to an endurance-reducing gulag is something that does not rhyme with my impression of the Zhodani either. On the other hand, the random traits table includes several entries I have trouble seeing in well-adjusted Zhodani.
Mongoose's Zhodani are too close to an "evil empire" for my taste.
They make nice enemies for player characters from the Imperium,
but are much less interesting as player characters themselves. In
my view the author has changed the feeling of the Zhodani society
from "different because of psionics" towards "totalitarian by use of
psionics", and the result is an interpretation of Zhodani society which
I think is rather different from the original one of Classic Traveller's
Zhodani module.
They make nice enemies for player characters from the Imperium,
but are much less interesting as player characters themselves. In
my view the author has changed the feeling of the Zhodani society
from "different because of psionics" towards "totalitarian by use of
psionics", and the result is an interpretation of Zhodani society which
I think is rather different from the original one of Classic Traveller's
Zhodani module.
