Missing Special definitions?

[HirnKhan]

I just got the Revised Edition and Armageddon books today. Reading through the Armageddon book I can't seem to find a description of some of the specials:

• Skin Dancing
  Targets
  Space Station
  Defence Network
  Shuttles

Can anyone point me to where I can find out what these do?

Thanks
Michael

 

[Obsidian]

These can all be found inside Sky full of Stars.

 

[Silvereye]

• Skin Dancing
  Targets
  Space Station
  Defence Network
  Shuttles

They all appear in Sky Full of Stars. Which will also explain how the Scout trait works.

Skin Dancing is available for Minbari Nials/Tishats/Flyers and White Stars. It enables them to get close to enemy ships and avoid any of the return fire.

Targets, Space Station, Defence Network all are part of how Space Stations work.

Shuttles are involved in planetary assaults.

 

[HirnKhan]

I was afraid someone would say that, so what MG says is wrong. So buying Revised and Armageddon is not enough to play the game after all

 

[Obsidian]

I was afraid someone would say that, so what MG says is wrong. So buying Revised and Armageddon is not enough to play the game after all

Curious as to where you saw that since Mongoose should certainly take that down if it is up somewhere. My impression was that in order to be fully up to date you needed a starter box (original or revised) Sky full of Stars and Armegeddon.

 

[H]

I was afraid someone would say that, so what MG says is wrong. So buying Revised and Armageddon is not enough to play the game after all

Curious as to where you saw that since Mongoose should certainly take that down if it is up somewhere. My impression was that in order to be fully up to date you needed a starter box (original or revised) Sky full of Stars and Armegeddon.

they did it with revised as well, released on the SAME DAY as Sfos, said it contained all the rules updates etc, and of course it didn't, creative advertising i'm afraid.

 

[lastbesthope]

I was afraid someone would say that, so what MG says is wrong. So buying Revised and Armageddon is not enough to play the game after all

Curious as to where you saw that since Mongoose should certainly take that down if it is up somewhere. My impression was that in order to be fully up to date you needed a starter box (original or revised) Sky full of Stars and Armegeddon.

I haven't seen it said anywhere. Though if you can prove me wrong, please do so. Whoever posted it is wrong.

LBH

 

[JoeSmokem]

Quote from the Revised Box page

REVISED EDITION: The revised box set brings A Call to Arms up to date with all the rules changes featured in the Sky Full of Stars supplement, allowing you to play against opponents who have that book.

Are we to asume that specials are not rules or do Mongoose need to lay off the person/people in charge of content management on their website?

 

[captainsmirk]

Its up date with the Rules Changes, as in changes done to rules from the original edition.
However it doesn't include any of the New Rules introduced in SFoS...

So that statement is in fact correct, just not very informative... :roll:

Nick

 

[Obsidian]

Its up date with the Rules Changes, as in changes done to rules from the original edition.
However it doesn't include any of the New Rules introduced in SFoS...

That's a good point. None of the items listed are even remotely needed to play the majority of games.

I'll basically mimic Silvereye's post here, but skin dancing only applies to a few ships, Targets, defence network and space station only apply to space stations which hardly ever see use, and shuttles have to do with planetary assualts which you seldom see and are frankly a big pain in the butt to play.

All in all you aren't missing much if you don't buy SFoS. If you really want to use those things then buy it. Otherwise you can skip it.

 

[Greg Smith]

There are a lot of new ships on SFoS that aren't in the revised edition. The league races all get expanded fleet lists to make them individually competetive. And of course the Shadows and Vorlons get revised rules. There is also the rules for breaching pods and boarding actions.

 

[Silvereye]

And of course the Shadows and Vorlons get revised rules.

For which he'll have the updated set in Armageddon....

 

[Ripple]

While it is true you do not NEED SFoS to play, if you want to play tournament then you do need it. In tourney folks will certainly try things like boarding, and even potentially skin dancing you. Would hate to have to learn the rule on the fly myself.

Ripple

 

[HirnKhan]

When I decided to get the hardcopies of the books, I contacted 4-5 online retailers asking them how fast they could deliver Revised, SFOS and Armageddon. ALL of them sent basically the same reply, that when I buy Revised I would not have to buy SFOS since it had been incorporated into the Revised ruleset and although they'd like to sell me as much as they could they felt it necessary to tell me that I was about to order an unnecessary book. I wonder where they got that information from?

This is the first game I play, and I have played many, where a supplement does not contain the rules necessary to play it. On top of that you are expected to pay another $35 in order to get a hold of those missing rules.

I am sorry to say this, but this is hardly a professional way of running a game, unless your profession is to get as much money as possible out of your customers while at the same time delivering as little as possible.

 

[Locutus9956]

I'm afraid all those suppliers are simply wrong then and it hardly seems fair to blame Mongoose for their mistake.

I have not seen it said ANYWHERE that you don't need SFoS if you have the revised rulebook.

And as for the supplement not containing the rules needed to play it? Armageddon does contain any new rules needed to play it, it simply doesnt reprint all the existing core rules, the updates in SFoS are more or less ACTA 1.5 rather than a supplement, the fact that the suppliers you asked got this wrong is of course rather poor on their part but it is worth noting that strictly speaking you don't NEED SFoS OR Armageddon to play against opponents with either set of books, you simply wont be able to pull some of the more advanced tricks (like boarding or skindancing).

As LBH notes though I can't recall seeing ANYWHERE saying that revised edition contains all of SFoS's addittions, it merely says that it is fully SFoS compatible (ie it includes all the revisions just not the extra ADDTIONS). (And yes I know this could be clearer but it's still not incorrect)

 

[HirnKhan]

I also don't see ANYWHERE that in order to use large part of the Armageddon book you NEED to have another supplement or be limited to looking at nice pictures.
NOWHERE does MGP state that Armageddon is dependant on another supplement and therefore it shouldn't be.
Armageddon is so empty except for the new ships that adding the missing special explanations would have done the book good.

 

[H]

I'm afraid all those suppliers are simply wrong then and it hardly seems fair to blame Mongoose for their mistake.

I have not seen it said ANYWHERE that you don't need SFoS if you have the revised rulebook.

And as for the supplement not containing the rules needed to play it? Armageddon does contain any new rules needed to play it, it simply doesnt reprint all the existing core rules, the updates in SFoS are more or less ACTA 1.5 rather than a supplement, the fact that the suppliers you asked got this wrong is of course rather poor on their part but it is worth noting that strictly speaking you don't NEED SFoS OR Armageddon to play against opponents with either set of books, you simply wont be able to pull some of the more advanced tricks (like boarding or skindancing).

As LBH notes though I can't recall seeing ANYWHERE saying that revised edition contains all of SFoS's addittions, it merely says that it is fully SFoS compatible (ie it includes all the revisions just not the extra ADDTIONS). (And yes I know this could be clearer but it's still not incorrect)

it is all "word mongering" unfortunately, it did state that the revised eddition brough you up to date with all the new rules, which was technically correct, bu on the same day, a load of new rules were released in SFOS. Bit cheesy, but a great way to make more money off unsuspecting consumers.

 

[Locutus9956]

I still fail to see what of SFoS you need to use Armageddon? The new ship lists in Armageddon dont depend on SFoS at all (with the exception of stations). The only other part of that book that you need SFoS to use is the SFoS errata odly enough...

SFoS is by and large mostly just fleet lists, you can use the Armageddon ones with the basic rules just as well, just ignore the troops score!

I know that perhaps Mongoose could be a bit clearer (I know the wording was a little unclear about what the revised rules and SFoS respectively did and did not contain but it's hardly the worlds greatest crime...) When all's said and done SFoS is far more central to the game than Armageddon anyway though (unless you play EA....).

Apologies if I came out a little on the harsh side there but comments like 'no other game I know of has supplements thar require other supplements to play' are little shortsighted and it had been a long day

Seriously though the thing is SFoS isnt really a supplement its a total overhaul of the fleet lists more than anything else whereas Armageddon is most accurately described as an update for SFoS. Would probably be better if Mongoose described it that way but no need to shoot the mesenger....

ps.

we have split the Earth Alliance into three time periods spread across the Babylon 5 timeline, replacing that found in Sky Full of Stars – the Early Years, the Third Age and the Crusade Era.

Thats from the Armageddon product description which to me implies that it replaces parts of SFoS (ie that its an update to that book rather than the core rulebook). Again its less clear than it should be but if you read the description it says all that armageddon has in it. No more, no less.