Minbari X)
- Thread starter Drahazar
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oh Boy, Minbari, Prepare for your oponents to hate you and regularly curse stealth ;-)
Sit back, sweep the board with your long range beams, and remove enemy scouts and fighters from the board as quickly as you can to keep your stealth advantage. Nials are expensive to buy seperately, but a Morshin is a bargain buy IF you want fighter support! otherwise sit back, watch the enmy get slaughtered by your beams, and laugh manically at them.
Sit back, sweep the board with your long range beams, and remove enemy scouts and fighters from the board as quickly as you can to keep your stealth advantage. Nials are expensive to buy seperately, but a Morshin is a bargain buy IF you want fighter support! otherwise sit back, watch the enmy get slaughtered by your beams, and laugh manically at them.
CZuschlag
Mongoose
Hiff's is certainly one way, and is certainly more stable. Iconic ships for this style and tactic: Veshantan (why is this ship so often ignored if you're going to play this way?), Tinashi, Leshath, Morshin, Sharlin. Any way to slice it, Minbari tactics are often about maintaining the effect of Stealth.
Another is what I call the high-speed oblique. It didn't used to be an issue, but with the new close-range Stealth penalties, another core idea has become maintaining your Stealth advantage by maintaining range and avoiding arc. At the Raid level you have often ridiculous speed advantages. Use them. Battle passes can be pointed just a bit outside the opposing fleet line, using the FA arc of the Netruon Laser to full effect. Engage at long range, preferably 18-20, fire, and, against 1/45 turning ships, run right past the line on succeeding turns, possibly using All Power to Engines to do it. Ashintas are champs at this with their 360 degree firepower. The Teshan is much more fragile, but has Neutron Lasers available, and can hit Ludicrous Speed (speed 21) under all power to engines to leapfrog all sorts of firing lines -- maybe one way to break down the Centauri Raid Firing line and the Ka'T** stack, all of which is 1 45 turn. Iconic ships for this fleet concept: Teshlan, Ashinta, perhaps Tinashi, Tiagra -- but only against specific opponents with very specific ideas.
A word on Tiagras -- be very, very careful when you select them. Armageddon's Sealth changes hit them very, very hard. Tiagras now tend to go Boom very easily. They have a huge problem against anything with Interceptors. Consider them specialist ships against Drakh Raiders and Narn only; and that Narn bit should be considered carefully. Don't field them against the Interceptor-less Dilgar; close range-brawling is their game, and you don't want to play it.
Ships you don't fly if at all possible: Esharan, Torotha, Troligan. In certain scenarios, you may be forced to fly a Torotha, but you're not obliged to like it.
Another is what I call the high-speed oblique. It didn't used to be an issue, but with the new close-range Stealth penalties, another core idea has become maintaining your Stealth advantage by maintaining range and avoiding arc. At the Raid level you have often ridiculous speed advantages. Use them. Battle passes can be pointed just a bit outside the opposing fleet line, using the FA arc of the Netruon Laser to full effect. Engage at long range, preferably 18-20, fire, and, against 1/45 turning ships, run right past the line on succeeding turns, possibly using All Power to Engines to do it. Ashintas are champs at this with their 360 degree firepower. The Teshan is much more fragile, but has Neutron Lasers available, and can hit Ludicrous Speed (speed 21) under all power to engines to leapfrog all sorts of firing lines -- maybe one way to break down the Centauri Raid Firing line and the Ka'T** stack, all of which is 1 45 turn. Iconic ships for this fleet concept: Teshlan, Ashinta, perhaps Tinashi, Tiagra -- but only against specific opponents with very specific ideas.
A word on Tiagras -- be very, very careful when you select them. Armageddon's Sealth changes hit them very, very hard. Tiagras now tend to go Boom very easily. They have a huge problem against anything with Interceptors. Consider them specialist ships against Drakh Raiders and Narn only; and that Narn bit should be considered carefully. Don't field them against the Interceptor-less Dilgar; close range-brawling is their game, and you don't want to play it.
Ships you don't fly if at all possible: Esharan, Torotha, Troligan. In certain scenarios, you may be forced to fly a Torotha, but you're not obliged to like it.
Joe_Dracos
Mongoose
I personally find the EA crusade era fleet to be a cure all for Minbari......
Otherwise, yeah... you may find players razz you for your choice.
Minbari are not invincible though. Your ships are preportionally lighter then ships of equal Priority, so when the enemy does see through your stealth, it will hurt a lot harder then normal. Your fighters should initially be used as a sceen for your capital ships. You need to use them to kill enemy fighters to prevent them from scouting for their fleet. Once the fighters are dead, use them to pick off the small ships.
Stand off tactics work well against the League, Centauri and the Early years EA fleets, but it will have less effect against the other 2 EA fleets and especially the Narn. The G'Quan will consistantly kick you in the teeth because if its energy mines. There slow loading you say, well that short charge can really be a pain in the neck. Ships with Hull 6 are going to be a serious problem for you. They seriously reduce the effectiveness of your beams.
Vorlon and Shadow fleets will make your life difficult as well. Stand off tactics (sit back and shoot) will not work against them. They have enough damage that they can just wade through your fire till they get in range and then your in trouble (that ancient tech thing). You have to out manouver the vorlons and stay out of there front arc. Shadows... I have no advice to give you about them... they have a natural +1 to defeat your stealth, a scout ship and fighters.... they can make your sharlin have a stealth of 2+!!
Now that Crusade era fleet is an issue. The Delphi is a pain in your rear (I guarantee it) since it doesn't ever have to get in range with your ships. Not to mention that the Nemisis and Marathon cruisers will keep your attention focused. I have yet to see the local Minbari player defeat a crusade era fleet.
Good luck!
Otherwise, yeah... you may find players razz you for your choice.
Minbari are not invincible though. Your ships are preportionally lighter then ships of equal Priority, so when the enemy does see through your stealth, it will hurt a lot harder then normal. Your fighters should initially be used as a sceen for your capital ships. You need to use them to kill enemy fighters to prevent them from scouting for their fleet. Once the fighters are dead, use them to pick off the small ships.
Stand off tactics work well against the League, Centauri and the Early years EA fleets, but it will have less effect against the other 2 EA fleets and especially the Narn. The G'Quan will consistantly kick you in the teeth because if its energy mines. There slow loading you say, well that short charge can really be a pain in the neck. Ships with Hull 6 are going to be a serious problem for you. They seriously reduce the effectiveness of your beams.
Vorlon and Shadow fleets will make your life difficult as well. Stand off tactics (sit back and shoot) will not work against them. They have enough damage that they can just wade through your fire till they get in range and then your in trouble (that ancient tech thing). You have to out manouver the vorlons and stay out of there front arc. Shadows... I have no advice to give you about them... they have a natural +1 to defeat your stealth, a scout ship and fighters.... they can make your sharlin have a stealth of 2+!!
Now that Crusade era fleet is an issue. The Delphi is a pain in your rear (I guarantee it) since it doesn't ever have to get in range with your ships. Not to mention that the Nemisis and Marathon cruisers will keep your attention focused. I have yet to see the local Minbari player defeat a crusade era fleet.
Good luck!
The tactics suggested so far are good.
I think it's a little harsh that you're saying peope will dislike you for choosing Minbari. True they tend to be a little hit or miss in smaller games (due to either passing or failing Stealth rolls) but they're pretty balanced now and certainly not overpowered so go forth and enjoy! (many of the fears of Minbari stem from earlier rules where they were much harder to kill)
I think it's a little harsh that you're saying peope will dislike you for choosing Minbari. True they tend to be a little hit or miss in smaller games (due to either passing or failing Stealth rolls) but they're pretty balanced now and certainly not overpowered so go forth and enjoy! (many of the fears of Minbari stem from earlier rules where they were much harder to kill)
mmmmmmmmm all that is very helpful info though ISA was not mintioned I was thinking of putting some war cruisers in hyperspace and warp them in behind the white stars and victorys and blast the piss out of em while the other part of my fleet attacks them that way they have to split there already small fleet. will i be able to attack right out of hyperspace i have to wait a few weeks for the rule book but i figure ask now and get a head up on the competion the only other guy on okinawa doing B5 with me so it will be ISA vs Minbari for about a year before i get back to the states unless he gets another fleet while im here. The ships ill have availiable will be the ones from the fleet box set so im limited to that it dose have 3 sharlins and stuff adn then when i get some more money i was going to buy the reinforcement box set and get some teshats.
Valen is my name
Mongoose
you can jump in from hyperspace but dont get to close, as the victories can fire a lot of weapons behind as well as in front, and the white stars are manoevarable enough to turn around and face the new ships in one or two turns, dont get too close!
hmmm yeah key distance it dose not deviate like deep strikeing in warhammer 40k and do you have to roll to see if they warp in that turn. so those tactics are sound enough to fight ISA then. is minbari hard to play. I play Necrons , Tau and have played Dark Eldar, and tyranids for Warhammer 40k Necons very powerful always out numbered not a lot of choices Dark eldar fast and lost of good weapons but squishy, tau lots of fire power one of the most advanced in teh game suck in hand to hand combat. i figure minbari are close to the eldar but not dark eldar. are the extra stuff im going to by going to be the right stuff to go for I remember reading teshat fighters where really good. adn the carrier it carriers what every fighter you out fit to it and fighters can be deployed in hyperspace with the ships too right.
CZuschlag
Mongoose
Thoughts against ISA:
The ISA WhiteStars are fully capable of overrunning your position after the first excahange of firepower, and are relatively hardy. Their extreme maneuverability is a problem, and the Nials on board their WhiteStars are actually better than yours.
All that given, you still have Stealth, and the ideas about maintaining it still hold as well. Currently, ISA players often field Vree scouts with their addtional fleet point. In small fights, kill these immediately. If you break their stealth, even the Teshlan's beam system will likely take them to crippled, if not killed outright.
Whilte dangerous in that you are closing range to give up some stealth bonuses, remember that within 4" your Fusion Cannons gain the anti-fighter trait, key in killing WS's. Ashintas are hardy enough to be used in the role successfully.
You may be tempted to buy the Esharan. DON'T. The same goes for the Veshantan -- 1 45 turn and no rear beam equals bad choice against ISA. Same goes for the Shantavi.
Crit-trawling is a valid tactic. The WhiteStar flies by the skin of its teeth. If it should be stopped, lose 1 AD or lose a weapon arc, it's temporarily out of the fight. There are 9 such criticals, for 1 out of 4 crits that really put the lid on these things, not counting the two BOOM results (6-5, 6-6). Crew crits really hurt these things as well. It's valid to try to roll lucky -- and your all-round Fusion Beams encourage this -- but remember that the best way to win is to kill his ships dead, so concentrate on what you want to kill each turn, just like always.
If you don't have more Nials than he does, engage White Star fighters at long range with the Neutron Laser. If they get there, these things are VILE.
Much of this goes out the window against the Vic. As modified by Armageddon, this thing is an absolute beast. The Precise nature of your Neutron Lasers need to help you out here, as generating the damage necessary to kill this monstrosity is much harder than generating the criticals needed to minimize its effect. Get into a turnfest with this thing, and be very careful of that boresight; don't give it something good (like a Tinashi or a Sharlin) to shoot at.
Finally, one last tactical possibility. Remember that the Neshantan and the Sharlin have a rear-mounted Neutron Laser system. I know they're expensive, but that means that an ISA player that overflies you probably still can't avoid Beaminess. The Sharoos goes even further in this direction, but at a cost of Nials and some Fusion Cannons. You may or may not care.
The ISA WhiteStars are fully capable of overrunning your position after the first excahange of firepower, and are relatively hardy. Their extreme maneuverability is a problem, and the Nials on board their WhiteStars are actually better than yours.
All that given, you still have Stealth, and the ideas about maintaining it still hold as well. Currently, ISA players often field Vree scouts with their addtional fleet point. In small fights, kill these immediately. If you break their stealth, even the Teshlan's beam system will likely take them to crippled, if not killed outright.
Whilte dangerous in that you are closing range to give up some stealth bonuses, remember that within 4" your Fusion Cannons gain the anti-fighter trait, key in killing WS's. Ashintas are hardy enough to be used in the role successfully.
You may be tempted to buy the Esharan. DON'T. The same goes for the Veshantan -- 1 45 turn and no rear beam equals bad choice against ISA. Same goes for the Shantavi.
Crit-trawling is a valid tactic. The WhiteStar flies by the skin of its teeth. If it should be stopped, lose 1 AD or lose a weapon arc, it's temporarily out of the fight. There are 9 such criticals, for 1 out of 4 crits that really put the lid on these things, not counting the two BOOM results (6-5, 6-6). Crew crits really hurt these things as well. It's valid to try to roll lucky -- and your all-round Fusion Beams encourage this -- but remember that the best way to win is to kill his ships dead, so concentrate on what you want to kill each turn, just like always.
If you don't have more Nials than he does, engage White Star fighters at long range with the Neutron Laser. If they get there, these things are VILE.
Much of this goes out the window against the Vic. As modified by Armageddon, this thing is an absolute beast. The Precise nature of your Neutron Lasers need to help you out here, as generating the damage necessary to kill this monstrosity is much harder than generating the criticals needed to minimize its effect. Get into a turnfest with this thing, and be very careful of that boresight; don't give it something good (like a Tinashi or a Sharlin) to shoot at.
Finally, one last tactical possibility. Remember that the Neshantan and the Sharlin have a rear-mounted Neutron Laser system. I know they're expensive, but that means that an ISA player that overflies you probably still can't avoid Beaminess. The Sharoos goes even further in this direction, but at a cost of Nials and some Fusion Cannons. You may or may not care.
lastbesthope
Mongoose
As per SFOS, Nials can be swapped for Tishats or Breaching Pods. FLyers may not be swapped.
I don't think Armageddon changes that.
LBH
I don't think Armageddon changes that.
LBH
The torotha is very small, with very short ranged weapons. That means that it has to get well within stealth reduction range to even fire - it also has no weapons in the side arcs leaving it open to fighters, and its best guns can be intercepted - it can be handy for JP bombing strategic targets that are left behind their fleet (like carriers) but aside from this it is a waste of a purchase.
The Esharan is one of the more pointless ships ever designed - it has true antifighter guns, but they only shoot out to 5 inches (whereas normal minibeams would shoot out to 4 inches as antifighter), and it sacrifices lots to get them. As soon as fighters got to move last/fire first it became redudant, as they can just move around it. Especially those fighters with 4/8 inch weapons.
As for the troligan - it's slow, doesn't have great stealth, has a poor armament and a low hull (considering it's supposed to be an 'armoured cruiser'). Either the Veshetan or Tinashi, or even the Shantavi would serve you much better.
The Esharan is one of the more pointless ships ever designed - it has true antifighter guns, but they only shoot out to 5 inches (whereas normal minibeams would shoot out to 4 inches as antifighter), and it sacrifices lots to get them. As soon as fighters got to move last/fire first it became redudant, as they can just move around it. Especially those fighters with 4/8 inch weapons.
As for the troligan - it's slow, doesn't have great stealth, has a poor armament and a low hull (considering it's supposed to be an 'armoured cruiser'). Either the Veshetan or Tinashi, or even the Shantavi would serve you much better.
oooooooooooo i see. well all this info has helped me understand the minbari a lot. they are definately like eldar in BFG powerful guns hard to get through the holo field but when you do there very crunchy and easy to crit. I think im really going to like B5 theres more to the game and more tactics to employ and more complex than BFG but not to much to make me get board with it cause of so many rules. sounds good for me. my next fleets after i play for awhile will depend on what happens in 2ed with the volrons and shadows. dunno why but im drawn to hard to play races. look at 40k I play necrons and i palyed dark eldar. oh well there my faverote races minbari volron and shadows. can't wait to get to the states to play others.
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