M4 & AKSU Carbine stats

[PilGrim]

What do people think these weapons should be rated as in BFEVO?

Both seem to be similar, with 5.56 /5.45 rounds, short barrels and full auto options, both basicaly designed for use close in and nasty.

The only comparible weapon in EVO I can see is the SAS M416 carbine, with a range of 20 and 1D6 Damage dice.

I would think that they are shorter ranged than the M416, which is itself an evolution of the M4.

Effective ranges are usually quoted as less than the full length versions, typically about 150 yards

How about

Range 12" Damage D6, and 2D6 in close combat, or KISS and give them 12" range and 2 D6 damage?

I am sort of leaning towards the second option. The problem with the first option is that there is no advantage in choosing the M4 over the current M16A2 as both would get 2D6 close combat, but the M4a1 has only half the range. Current alleged preference amoung troops for the M4 over the M16 seems to suggest that there is some advantages.

Another option would allow the user to move as light infantry- say 5", instead of 4", but in my mind the reason for the speed reduction is more the armour than the guns the slower troops carry, as MEA troops with RPGs are as fast as their AK armed squad mates.

Suggestions welcome

 

[Mr Evil]

why and for whom ?

 

[Mr Evil]

why and for whom ?

 

[PilGrim]

Because

and

for me

 

[PilGrim]

but more helpfully

because I like the rules system and want to play with some other factions and scenarios that are not available at the moment.

 

[PilGrim]

BFEVO is not fantasy or SF, it has a real world basis. All the infantry weapons so far used are either already in production or are in prototype \ testing. It should therefore be easy to extrapolate other weapons from the current stats.

The only real issue is why the US and UK inf get 2D6 close combat when the MEA get only 1D6. IIRC the M16A2 has no auto fire mode where the AK does, so it must be something else

 

[captainsmirk]

Well I can't help but think that your confusing two different forms of weapon...

The M4 is a short version of an assault rifle, commonly used in similar situations. The AKSU-74 whilst similar in form is a weapon often classified (whether correctly or not) as a submachine gun in rifle calibre...

I'm not sure they would be that significantly shorter in range than the ordinary rifles. Plus on your KISS example they really don't produce a volume of fire any greater than a rifle, definantly not almost as much as a machine gun which is what 2d6 would represent...

As for the difference in CC scores, perhaps it represents training. Whilst the MEA basic troops are supposed to be trained rather than just guys off the street with guns, they still aren't of the same standard as US/ETF troops.


Nick

 

[Mr Evil]

i think training can make more diferance than the particular weapon in many cases.

 

[Locutus9956]

Well in all honesty Id stat the M4 exactly the same as the HK416 as it is essentially an improved M4 which at the level of detail modelled in BF Evo would be pretty much indistinguishable (the main thing is the 416 is much more reliable which Evo rules make no provisions for (you could add something for the 416 like allows rerolls of 1s I suppose but dont think theyve done so)

 

[PilGrim]

Nick - good point about the volume of fire, although if that is a factor why does the M16A2 get the same as an AK? maybe I am over complicating.

I would class the M4 and AKSU as the same type of weapon - both are short barrelled assault weapons firing similar ammo although the barrel length on the AK is less than the standard M4, both are well short of the full barrels of the parents

 

[Col_stone]

Don't overcomplicate

 

[captainsmirk]

Because even with the 3-round bursts rather than full auto a US Marine with an M16 is going to produce just as much effective fire as a less well trained guy blazing away on full auto...

The shift to 3-shot bursts is mainly because full auto for rifles is often seen as wastefull in ammunition, even with the reduced recoil of modern rounds a unstabilized (no bipod, etc.) weapon won't hit with more than about three rounds on full auto anyway. Most accurate shooting at range would be semi-auto anyway...


Nick

 

[PilGrim]

ok - looking at them again I see the point about the AKSU - the barrel is only 210mm so that's nowhere close to the M4, and yes I suppose realistically the M416 is pretty much an M4 that keeps working when an M4 dont.



So

AKSU range 12", D6 damage?

 

[Paladin]

The fine details of weapons can't be represented in such a simplistic game. You get generic concepts only.

From my testing in building the Mercs rules weapon ranges are roughly their "maximum effective range" divided by 20. For the M4 that is 400 meters. So I'd give it a 20" range. There is little to no difference in damage from the bullets of the weapons. Except for sniper rifles or something with a LOT of extra punch.

M4A1 20" D6

I'm not sure on the AKS-74 since I can't find a cosistent range. Dependig on the propganda site it's 200-800 meters.

 

[Locutus9956]

http://world.guns.ru/main-e.htm is pretty good normally for facts.

 

[Sgt. Brassones]

BFEVO is not fantasy or SF, it has a real world basis. All the infantry weapons so far used are either already in production or are in prototype \ testing. It should therefore be easy to extrapolate other weapons from the current stats.

The only real issue is why the US and UK inf get 2D6 close combat when the MEA get only 1D6. IIRC the M16A2 has no auto fire mode where the AK does, so it must be something else

MSprange has said on another thread that the 2D6 CC score includes their heavy use of grenades prior to an assualt.

 

[PilGrim]

Thanks Sarge - makes sense

 

[Lane Shutt]

The M4 and M416 would have identical game stats since the major difference is the method of operating the bold.

Range on an M4 would be close to an M16A4. IIRC the ranges are listed as 500m and 550m. However having fired AR15's in both configurations at 100m I would keep range the same. In prone and kneeling positions my shot groups were almost identical, Standing my groups were better with the M4 due to the shorter length and lighter weight.

The AKSU-74 based on barrel length I would stat ate either 20" with no double range fire or 12-15" withe double range option.