Looking for critique of my first attempt at a Capital ship

[billclo]

Hi. I've just finished crunching the numbers on my first attempt at a Capital ship. I am posting it in the hopes that you all can critique it and see if I made any errors.

I did not compute cost, just tonnage, right now.

The ship was envisioned as a Heavy cruiser with enhanced defenses and ability to absorb alot of damage.

75,000 ton Heavy Cruiser, TL 15
Config: Needle, 4 sections, advanced hull construction yields 2142 hull+structure each. Self sealing hull, with reflec coating and Radiation shielding.

Armor: 12 pts 7500 tons
M-Drive 6 + level 1 backup 3187.5 tons.
J-Drive 3 3000 tons.
Powerplant, TL 15, Level 6 with a level 4 backup 4500 tons.
Fuel - Jump 3 with 4 weeks operations and 16 extra tons for small craft ops. 26284.75 tons.
Bridge plus 4x Command bridge 1820 tons.
Computer Core 6/rad hardened x 4
Sensors: Mil Countermeasures, Enhanced Sig Proc, and Distributed Array, x 4 units (1 per section, or is it one operating, 3 backups?) 264 tons

Fuel Processors: refuel in 3 days. 438 tons.
Briefing rooms x 4 16 tons
Armories for 120 Marines x 12, 24 tons.
Hangars (full) for 4 50-ton Cutters, 260 tons.
Lab space for 2 researchers, 8 tons.
Library x4, 16 tons.
Breaching tubes x 8, 24 tons.
Repair Drones 750 tons.
Screens:
Nuclear Damper x 6 (4 active, 2 backups), TL15, 144 tons.
Meson Screen x 6 (4 active, 2 backups), TL15, 252 tons.

Weapons:
Class C Meson Spinal mount, TL 15, Dmg 455, 4000 tons.
100 Ton bays:
35 x Torpedo bays (210 missiles per barrage), with 10% weight reduction and Very High Yield, 3185 tons.
80 x Particle Beam Bays, TL 15, -40% weight. 4880 tons.

50 Ton bays:
25 x Missile Bay, TL15, -40% weight. 775 tons.

Turrets:
300 Triple Beam Laser, Accurate. 300 tons.
200 Triple Sandcaster, resilient. 200 tons.
80 Single Particle Beam, accurate, 80 tons.


Armored Bulkheads:
Engineering and all drives: 1068.75 tons
All weapons and screens: 1381.6 tons.
Bridges and sensors: 209 tons.

Crew: Overstrength
works out to be 1228, with rooms for 3/6 passengers.
Quarters x 591, 2364 tons.
Officer's quarters + passengers = 49 Staterooms, 196 tons
Escape Pods: 640, 320 tons.

Ammunition:
Torpedoes x 2520 (12 full salvoes), 6300 tons.
Missiles x 4200 (14 salvoes), 350 tons.
Sandcaster barrels: 3000 barrels (5 salvoes) 150 tons.

Cargo (spare parts to increase time away from port): 752.4 tons.

So, any errors or ways to optimize the design?
Thanks

 

[Solomani666]

Hi. I've just finished crunching the numbers on my first attempt at a Capital ship. I am posting it in the hopes that you all can critique it and see if I made any errors.

I did not compute cost, just tonnage, right now.

So, any errors or ways to optimize the design?
Thanks

If it all fits, then it looks like a mighty fine try for a first, or any attempt.
I would say that you have succeeded quite well.

I would be very interested in seeing the final stats.

Contender for the next Billion Credit Squadron maybe?



.

 

[billclo]

Thanks. It took quite a while to crunch the numbers and I was desperately longing for an interactive spreadsheet to speed things up.

I'm sure the cost is more like 50-100 Billion credits though, so sorry not for the BCS.

I was thinking of making one for the BCS though just to try it out. I'll get on that shortly.

 

[BP]

For the first BCS here, with its credit and TL limits, I tried and quickly determined the budget just wasn't there to make anything decent (or at all maybe).

With enough credits its doable - though the rules really made no provision for blending the two forms of combat...

billclo, if you format the stats like the books (columns of numbers) I'd look at it, otherwise its too much to ask. A PDF, and/or use the CODE tags (see BBCode link).

 

[billclo]

I tried to manually reformat with no luck. Can't figure out the Code or List buttons. Can't make a PDF. Maybe I can do it up in Excel and repost.

 

[RichardP]

On the basis that not taking damage is better than back-ups, dump all the backups except for 1 auxiliary bridge, back-up sensors and back-up computer. Use the extra space for more armour.

Ditching the boarding tubes, you don't board from a capital ship - there is a chance you could be counter boarded. Marins board vessels via small craft. You might want to swap a couple of the cutters for proper boarding shuttles. Helps the marines to live long enought to board the target.

Provide some armouries for the crew as well, they can help to defend the ship.

You only need a full hanger for 1 or two vessels to allow proper maint, smaller hangers will do for the other craft, you rotate them into the main hanger as required.

Improve the weapons - go for accurate, high yield, long range (and resilient for sandcasters and repulsors).

Carry repulsors, they are very good at stopping missiles (classic traveller)

Carry more ammo, the design shoots itself dry in less than 20rds of combat.

Dump the spares, a Heavy cruiser will have escorts, couriers and a fleet train to carry the non-essential stuff (parts, more ammo, food and drink, spare uniforms etc.)

Hope this helps

 

[apoc527]

Very nice. I would disagree with the above poster on one point: don't dump the spares if the cruiser is actually going to cruise. The name comes from their ability to operate independently with no fleet support or escorts. Obviously in a fleet battle, that's not important, but during normal operations or commerce raiding, it will be key to be self-sufficient.

 

[DFW]

Very nice. I would disagree with the above poster on one point: don't dump the spares if the cruiser is actually going to cruise. The name comes from their ability to operate independently with no fleet support or escorts. Obviously in a fleet battle, that's not important, but during normal operations or commerce raiding, it will be key to be self-sufficient.

Thanks for the back round. Good info.

 

[billclo]

Richard,

I guess I could increase the armor. I was thinking along more traditional Navy lines wherein cruisers aren't as well armored as Battleships, etc.

As for ditching the backups, I don't know about that. I'm a believer in redundancy. Especially after seeing the Billion Credit ship design competition and the combat results wherein ships were put out of action fairly quickly due to no backups.

I'll think about reducing the backup powerplant and/or eliminating the backup maneuver drive.

I'm not seeing anything about repulsors in either the core rules or High Guard. I'm using MGT Traveller, not Classic.

Good idea on ditching the boarding tubes and more armories for the crew. I'll think about changing a couple hangars over to assault shuttles.

High Guard page 65 requires one command module (bridge) per section @ .5% per bridge. I wanted a Command bridge in case the cruiser might be commanding a small squadron (quite possible). Page 44 mentions Command bridges and that they take up 80 tons per section of ship. I don't see dumping those. I'm not sure if you can only have one Command bridge, or if you have to have 4 - one for each section of ship. I could see only having one if allowable.

The published ship designs in High Guard all seem to have 1 Command bridge per section though (Battleship and Planet Class Cruiser).

Thanks for the suggestions so far. I guess I'll have to test the design sometime. I may try to run a combat versus an Imperial Planet class cruiser if I can figure out the barrage rules, to see what happens.

 

[AndrewW]

I'm not seeing anything about repulsors in either the core rules or High Guard. I'm using MGT Traveller, not Classic.

Mongoose Traveller doesn't have them (at least so far).

High Guard page 65 requires one command module (bridge) per section @ .5% per bridge. I wanted a Command bridge in case the cruiser might be commanding a small squadron (quite possible). Page 44 mentions Command bridges and that they take up 80 tons per section of ship. I don't see dumping those. I'm not sure if you can only have one Command bridge, or if you have to have 4 - one for each section of ship. I could see only having one if allowable.

Capital ship command bridges take up 80 tons per section of ship and located in a single location (which may be separate from the main bridge).

So that's one command bridge per ship, just it is larger if there is more then one ship section.

 

[phavoc]

Your cruiser sounds like its more of a raider than a ship-of-the-line support vessel.

If that's the case, your armor factor is ok. If you intend the ship to support larger capital ships, I'd up the armor to at least 14, if not 15.

For the systems that you have at x4, I'd drop them to just primary, secondary, and maybe tertiary. But no more than 3 of anything.

If you plan on this being a raider, I'd up your fuel processors to process in about 24hrs. You don't want to have to stooge around a hostile system any longer than you need to.

You probably only need 1-2 armories. Are you planning on having them in battledress? If so, you'd probably go with 2 armories next to your 2 'morgues' for the battledress.

I agree with others - add in a few assault craft to put your marines in.

Keep the hangar at that size, but leave it for your assault craft. Store your cutters in form-fitting bays. Also, do you plan on having any other cutter modules present? If so you'll need to allocate space to them. You can swap them out in the hangar bay.

What's the lab space for? Only in Star Trek do they put labs on warships!

No need for breaching tubes. Cruisers tend to use their weapons to make breaches in the enemy ships.

One thing to ask yourself is if this ship is a raider, do you really want to be carrying missiles and ammo for them on long raids behind enemy lines? If you don't, then you can remove your missiles and replace them with beams. You sacrifice some range, but you allow yourself a much better weapons mix for long-duration raids. You could keep the missiles and ditch the torps.

You definitely want to increase your sand ammo. You'll want a LOT more than that.

I think your existing Cargo is sufficient for most things You also could split your hangar bays up, and then make your larger cargo storage areas adjacent to them. You can then store your cutter modules right next to the hangar. Which, while it doesn't do anything when designing it on paper, if you ever go to writing a ship description or drawing deckplans it will make a lot more sense.

And, for a ship of that size, you probably want to add in a few more small craft, like launches/pinnaces, Gigs, etc.

 

[BP]

I tried to manually reformat with no luck. Can't figure out the Code or List buttons. Can't make a PDF. Maybe I can do it up in Excel and repost.

'CODE' text relies on spaces to line things up. I count spaces, but most folks would rather not... an easier way:

Edit your text with another editor using a mono-spaced font (like Courier).
Line up everything with spaces (not tabs).
Paste code in post and click code button with text highlighted...
  Code Test     5    6
  Another      17    8
  More         9    32

Line it up like the books and I'll make it worth your while - I'll put it into a purdy PDF for you...

Armour of 12 sounds good - anything more is less bang for the buck... for standard space combat (metagaming things - of course, capital ship YMMV).

BTW: Repulsor tech is mentioned in CSC, even a personal shield had such if I recall (no surprise given the 'source' since its mostly a slap and paste of another version without quite enough editing...) - but not for starships I think. Though, other, similiar, tech is mentioned without any supporting mechanics (see the TL section near the beginning).

 

[rust]

What's the lab space for? Only in Star Trek do they put labs on warships!

Ah ... I doubt that the aircraft carriers of the US Navy belong to a Star
Trek fleet simply because they have fuel quality control laboratories on
board. :wink:

 

[BP]

What? The USS Enterprise isn't part of Star Fleet?

OH... my bad, you wrote 'simply because' leaving it open that they belong for other reasons! :lol:

 

[billclo]

BP, I've fooled with Code and List til my eyes are ready to implode; can't get the columns to line up correctly.

I can get it to work in either Excel or Word. If you would be willing, I could sent a copy to you and you can then convert to PDF for easier reading.

I did a major redesign based upon some of the suggestions made so far.

 

[BP]

Ah, eye implosion - not recommended! PM enroute... :shock:

BTW: List is not a good idea for such things - it is also very browser and system dependent.

 

[Liam Devlin]

I like the design!

I would do away with the breeching tubes entirely--because your Marines can have those aboard their assault craft. Let the smallfry do the work--the big girl has to keep the eyes peeled when taking prizes.

YMMV

 

[RichardP]

You have to decide if your cuiser is a raider, a battle line unit or border guard. Seems to be a board guard at the moment.

If you were going for a raider, increase the Jump drive, carry some fighters (to chase merchants when the convoy scatters), replace more of the missiles with energy weapons, - no resupply on deep raids. You could also thin the armour a bit if needed - you are raiding not going toe to toe with a battleship. raiders are also typically smaller Light Cruiser or destroyer size.

A battle line unit needs more ammo and more armour. You can leave supplies, fighters and large numbers of marines to the fleet train.

Cheers
Richard

 

[billclo]

I did substantial re-design. I've had success in converting to PDF! But I still cannot post it without the BBS ruining the columns.

 

[billclo]

75000 Ton TL 15 Command Cruiser.
This ship was designed to stand in the battle line in support of larger ships.
It was intended to be able to take substantial damage and continue to fight.
It was also designed to be able to command small squadrons when needed.
Hull: Config needle,. TL 15, 4 sections. Total damage is 2142 pts Hull and
2142 pts Structure. It also has reflec coating and self-sealing properties.
tons
Armor: 14 pts of TL 15 armor 8750
Manuever Drive: level 6 TL15 (2437.5 tons * .75) 1828.13
Jump Drive 3, TL 15 (3000 tons * .75) 2250
Power Plant: level 6 + level 3 backup, both TL 15.
(2812.5tons + 1406.25 tons) 4218.75
Fuel: Jump 3 22500
Powerplant Ops 4 weeks + 16 tons for small craft 3784.75
Bridge: Standard plus Command Bridge (4 sections) 1820
Computer: 3 x Core/6 Hardened
Holographic controls
Sensors: Military countermeasures
Enhanced Signal Processing
Distributed Array x 3 sets. 198
Briefing Rooms x 4 16
Armories: 12 for 120 Marines, 18 more for the rest of the crew 60
(1 armory per 50 crew)
Hangars for 2 assault shuttles (full) 60tons * 1.3 156
Hangars for 2 50-ton Cutters (standard) 100
Storage for 2 30-ton cutter modules 60
Library x 4 16
Repair Drones 750
Screens:
Nuclear Dampers x 7, 6 active, 1 backup, TL 15 168
Meson screens x 7, 6 active, 1 backup. TL 15 294
Fuel Processors: refuel in 3 days 438
Weapons:
1 x Meson-C spinal mount, TL 15, Dmg=455 4000
100 Ton bays:
35 x Torpedo bays, TL 15, 10% lighter, Very High Yield 3185
80 x Particle Beam bays, TL 15, -40% weight. 4880
50 Ton Bays:
25 x Missile bays, TL 15, -25% weight, High Yield 962.5
Turrets:
300 x triple beam laser, Accurate, High Yield 300
200 x triple sandcaster, resilient, easy to repair 200
80 x single Particle Beam, Accurate, High Yield 80
Armored Bulkheads for all weapons/Screens 1406.95
Armored Bulkheads for all Drives/Power Plants 829.7
Armored Bulkheads for Bridges/Sensors 202
Crew: Over strength.
Engineering: 100
Command: 46
Gunnery: 490
Screens: 68
Flight: 16
Troops: 120
Service: 182
Total: 1022
Quarters (2 men/stateroom) x 488 1952
Quarters for Officers/Passengers x 49 196
Escape Pods: x 537 268.5
Cargo: (1 month’s extra spare parts to extend endurance) 754.2
Ammunition:
Torpedoes: 2940 (14 Salvoes). 7350
Missiles: 6900 (23 Salvoes) 575
Sandcaster Barrels: 9000 (15 Salvoes) 450
Total: 75000 tons.

That's the latest revision. PDF viewable here:

http://travellerdocs.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/75000_ton_tl_15_command_cruiser1.pdf