Liati - why????

[Tank]

Right, as some of you may be aware Adam is our local Centauri player and we thought we'd take the opportunity to test the new Liati against their supposed targets, the Whitestars.

So we have played 4 games with me playing Whitestars (bing change to my EA) against a Liati now we played on a 4x4 board with no terrain, in 2 of those games the Liati died without firing a shot, 1 game he won after spectacularly blowing out 2 whitestars (my fault I had them squadroned and didnt break the squadron at the right point) and the other game he managed to blitz 1 whitestar before being hammered.

So our question is, why is the Liati a War level ship? we are planning on having it fight against some EA just to see what happens but even I, with my bias think that the Liati is grossly underpowered for its level.

 

[Alexb83]

Not just why is it a war level ship, but why does it have those ridiculous 50% crew and hull thresholds? The latter still stands for the Neroon, too - why is it that these new super advanced ships seem to be made out of tissue paper and undercrewed?

 

[H]

Not just why is it a war level ship, but why does it have those ridiculous 50% crew and hull thresholds? The latter still stands for the Neroon, too - why is it that these new super advanced ships seem to be made out of tissue paper and undercrewed?

certainly seems odd doesn't it, if it was for some kind of balance issue, I think most of us fail to see what it is. Imagine if the KaBinTak or Adira had 50% thresholds. or the Victory, It would be a joke, so why has it been written and accepted at playtest like this for the Liati and Neroon. Has anyone else tried the liati at all? it does look like it might be more suited to Batle level, If it's turret weapon was upped in range to match the whitestars range, it would be a huge improvement.

I think it's time for the mythbusters to try a few different battles and scenarios trying each with the liati as Both war, and battle

 

[Burger]

We need a Liati vs. WS Gunship fight too. I agree the Liati is worse, but not by such a margin as people make out. The WS Gunship really does suck monkey balls too, with its 15 crew.

I think it's time for the mythbusters to try a few different battles and scenarios trying each with the liati as Both war, and battle

I think we have our first Armageddon mythbust :lol:

 

[Tank]

So basically we need to see why?!!!

Basically a 12 inch range for primary weapons on a War level ship is exceedingly panse, especially when the primary opposition for the Liati out ranges it by 6 inches!!! The ship seriously does not match up to the fluff txt!

 

[Alexb83]

Fluff =/ actuality in the rules! No change there...

The Neroon, Liati and Nemesis really do need a bit of an explanation - as I reviewed elsewhere, at any PL, every ship (aside from fighters) has thresholds in excess of 70% of their total hull/crew track. For a number of ships it goes into the high 80%'s on hull.

Even the whitestar, as low as it is has 70/75% thresholds.

Why then do the Neroon and the Liati alone, of all the ships in ACTA have a 50% threshold?

 

[H]

My bet is they origionally had a much higher crew and damage score that the threshold reflected, then through playtesting against a Lone sagi, they managed to scrape a victory, so they got their numbers downed, but someone forgot to lower their thresholds. .. .

 

[Alexb83]

Why lower the thresholds, though? Why not reduce the length of the track and keep the 70%+ rule which seems to cover every other ship and fleet in the book?

In any case, the Neroon is low enough (lower than a Sharlin by 16!) in crew already (and only 12 more hull!), with the same hull and stealth nos.

I can't see how they worked these ones out. Some sort of reasoning from on high might be nice...

 

[H]

Why lower the thresholds, though? Why not reduce the length of the track and keep the 70%+ rule which seems to cover every other ship and fleet in the book?

In any case, the Neroon is low enough (lower than a Sharlin by 16!) in crew already (and only 12 more hull!), with the same hull and stealth nos.

I can't see how they worked these ones out. Some sort of reasoning from on high might be nice...

the reasoning might be, "because matt said so"

 

[combatdroid113]

perhaps now im going out on a limb here, its because they are new ships with bugs and crew trainning to work out. Secondly most races (bar the Ea) have had decades to sort out their ships of the line, these are new and well its going to be a bumpy road. (if you also notice that a lot of the ships are knee jerk reactions from their races to combat a specific threat)

 

[Tank]

I hate that kind of reasoning!

 

[combatdroid113]

its either that or its the sahdows :shock:

 

[Alexb83]

Urgh, let's not get started with that - read the fluff of the Marathon, and it should be rolling a dice every turn to see if the AI on the ship is working, and it can actually do anything.

No, these ships just stand out like sore thumbs as anomalies - and there's no reasoning in their fluff for why. Looking across the board, there doesn't seem to be any reasoning in the 'game balance' across their PLs for them to be as they are, either.

When you've got ships like the Adira, with GEG, hull 6 and double the crew of the Neroon (without the 50% threshold - 73% for hull, 74% for crew!) or the Victory, with Adaptive Armour (why, oh why don't the Minbari have this in the Crusade era? They build the bloomin' things!), 85% hull and 82% crew thresholds...

 

[captainsmirk]

its either that or its the sahdows :shock:

That's it!

All the freaky First One technology is subtly eating the crew of the ships making them more prone to running out mid battle...

:lol:

Nick

 

[Tank]

thank the maker I play EA, mostly early era, none of that ancient tech for us!!!

 

[Itkovian]

HM well my experience of the Liati is only fighting it in a large action, probably it's best use is covering the rear of the Beam Team as it can annihilate 1-2 Ws a turn if it gets in range.

But it DOES break easily.

And I agree the White Star Gunship is a dreadful ship, under armed and made of tissue paper, it's even more galling when you consider that the WSC-2 has a 3+ Dodge whereas this useless thing has 5+. So 2 points more crew and a few extra weapons make up for being twice as likely to get hit do they?

The Carrier is a better SHIP never mind the fighters it carries.

 

[combatdroid113]

probably be an errata for it soon

 

[TenaciousB]

probably be an errata for it soon

Wouldn't surprise me - S&P could well be full of Armageddon fixes over the next 6 months or so :lol:

 

[combatdroid113]

im hoping i do not see an errata for the errata

 

[Triggy]

Basically it should be a Battle level ship and even against an all White Star fleet, it still isn't worth a War point!!! (it's worth about 1.5 Battle points against ISA).