league, so many options

Talisinbear

Mongoose
lots of options with the league now

so what would an experienced player build as the ultimate league force to compete with say a starter box and reinforcement box fleet of the big boys of CtA?

Talisinbear
 
I've been working on the same question how to make a good League fleet. I'm thinking some Drazi as the first hitters for speed, Brakiri for longer range fire and the second line with some Vree as backup and/or Scout trait on the Vaarl. Not very familiar yet with Abbai or Pak.

Anyone else got some ideas on how to make a good League fleet?

Chris
 
Brakiri for the heavy vessels (plenty of damage and crew points) and their fleet carrier is a must to give League fighters a fair chance in dogfights. Drazi for the "attack dogs" and Eyehawk scout. Their Stormfalcon cruiser is really vicious with it's Solar Cannon too. Abbai and Vree are a matter of taste, but they both effectively drop your initiative (not 100% sure about the Vree on this) and don't add that many more must-have ships to make up for it. Vree scouts and heavy fighters are pretty good though. Pak'Ma'Ra ships have the same problem with initiative but are really tough to kill and have extremely powerful weapons for their PLs.
 
Brakiri for your heavy hitters
Vree to get stuff on the flanks or to stand off and lob in torpedoes
Drazi to get in there and mix it up
Abbai - not too sure havent used them yet
PakMara for more heavy hitting and to soak up damage
 
Have to disagree with Ian. Eyehawk is trash, any of the other scouts is better...Shyarie, Vaarl, Vaarka....They all have some form of survivability over the tiny hull four eyehawk and can at least defend themselves from a flight of fighters.

by PL

Patrol (ignoring fighters right now)
Plasmahawk is very strong contender here. The 'redundancy' save on 6 for crew and damage makes this big enough to survive a hit, or at least unlikely to explode, and it has a front arc long range weapon.
Vaarl, bar none the best buy scout in the game.
Tiraca/Brisaria are always tempting but usually just give points away.
Everything else is too slow, too weak or too short ranged for general use.

Skirmish
Warbird is a tough little cookie that has a decent punch. Must be used in groups to really be effective and must have initiative sinks.
Strikehawk, see above but has a heavy fighter that will likely never get a chance to shoot...but is scary.
Brikorta. an ap dd beam at relatively long range...and it has interecptors and fighters too...buy them.
Plasma Ikorta variant from Pak, another great ship. This forms the core of many Pak fleets...good long range punch in packs and good side guns.
Milani prior to Arm one of the best now outclassed by the Brikorta (better beam/fighters) and the Plasma Ikorta (tougher/better range) if taken as packs. No carrier trait and the short range of the guns let it down, but really its the fact that the Kotha is virtually useless.
Xixx, another formerly good ship that is really being outclassed by the Plasma Ikorta/Brikorta. Still it is your only range 30 bombardment ships that can back away as it shoots.

Raid
Supermerchant, it doesn't get any better. Great forward punch, no boresight issues, hull six with redundancy...
Solarhawk...do you like roman candles...great one shot weapon, handle with care as its very fragile.
Haltona is okay in pairs or more...good enough beam, fair number of all round dice. Depends on opponent.
Battlewagon, again...hull six with interceptors, a pack of fighters, a decent beam. Good in smaller fights or really big ones...leave out of fighters where you will get flanked.
bimith has never worked for me...too short ranged...but folks tell me she's a wonderful boat.
Xill is a great ship if you aren't facing any of the beam teams...the 30 damage tends to be just enough to make them feel they got good use out of those 3 and 4 die beams.

Battle
Xaak, great guns, command, manuever and just enough staying power.
Kaliva, paired or with another ship that can soak intercpetors, this is the core of most league fleets.
Brokadoes, in any game big enough or dedicated to fighters, a must have.
Stormfalcon, looks great, but rarely lives up to it, same issue as the solarhawk. Great out of the gate but no staying power, largely due to movement issues with the boresight. Nightfalcon is a better buy but the eh...the Xaak is a better command ship and the Kaliva a better hitter and the Brokadoes a better carrier.
Lakara is just too slow/short ranged for a mixed fleet.

War
Brakiri only if you want the mines...fun those.
the Pak War ship is otherwise the absulute beast...long range punch, survivable and noone wants to get anywhere near it.
Z'takk now has a nice model, but with only 50 crew i'd avoid it as a war ship.

Arm.
well choices are limited...
Brivioki...it is a beast....but so sooooo ugly...

There are other ships but not that I would generally take in mixed fleet. The core of any mixed fleet is to decide if expected opponents are going to have interceptors or not. If they do, either go all beam or all plasma/grav. Don't mix, you'll just lose too much firepower to the pretty interceptor lightshow.

Initiative is usually a lost cause, only the drazi have a bonus, and many of your best ships have a penalty in the abbai and pak lines. You have several good choices for command bonuses...use them to offset the penalty and hope you opponent didn't buy any. but mostly prepare to lose.

Fighters....again....be prepared to just lose here...you can have better numbers and better bombers....but they generally will choose the fights and your dodge scores on your bombers suck. You also have to pay for you better fighters as they don't appear on carriers, and that means you gave up initiative sinks, a much bigger deal given you likely to lose initiative most times.

Fleets I have seen work...

Brokadoes with six brikorta (5 pt raid) - lots of beams, lots of figters that the carrier can regen.

Battlewagon, 2 Warbird, 2 Vaarl (5pt skirmish) - all tough, beam...vaarls for initiative sinking to avoid have a third or more of your firepower have no targets.

2 kaliva (or Kaliva/Xaak) and anything else at battle level - I have tried all kinds of mixes here...and the key is to have some for of interceptable weapons on the smaller ships to make an opening.

Ripple
 
The Eyehawk IS trash, but it's the only scout the League has that won't drop your initiative score below 0. Although if you field a mass of Drazi with your fleet that won't usually matter that much.

I've always had trouble using the Sky Serpent. Unless the enemy doesn't have fighters or you have brought enough to effectively screen them then they rarely get into weapon range.


EDIT:My mistake, the Vree have Initiative +0
 
Iain McGhee said:
I've always had trouble using the Sky Serpent. Unless the enemy doesn't have fighters or you have brought enough to effectively screen them then they rarely get into weapon range.
My problem is I always forget to launch them!!!

Use a Star Snake to fly in support of them. If the Star Snake loses the dogfight, shoot the enemy fighter down with the Sky Serpent.
 
Nice analysis Ripple!

Any reason you didn't mention the Raider Nova though? I've found that to be a really hard Battle choice when supported properly.

Other then only being hull 5 & I guess if you consider the Lakara to be too slow with speed 6 then speed 4 isn't even close to being considered.
 
LordClinto said:
Nice analysis Ripple!

Any reason you didn't mention the Raider Nova though? I've found that to be a really hard Battle choice when supported properly.

Other then only being hull 5 & I guess if you consider the Lakara to be too slow with speed 6 then speed 4 isn't even close to being considered.
I'd echo these sentiments, that is a pretty succinct and accurate analysis. The Raider Nova is OK but not as good as a Kaliva or Xaak (unfortunately :().
 
With the new Braks mentioned in a separate topic. it may make it all a mote point. They can maybe fly solo competitively


Talisinbear
 
Burger said:
Iain McGhee said:
I've always had trouble using the Sky Serpent. Unless the enemy doesn't have fighters or you have brought enough to effectively screen them then they rarely get into weapon range.
My problem is I always forget to launch them!!!

Use a Star Snake to fly in support of them. If the Star Snake loses the dogfight, shoot the enemy fighter down with the Sky Serpent.


Usually do have them escorted.Trouble is when you come up against the likes of the EA they usually have enough fighters to target the escort as well. I try to target the enemy fighters with Star Snakes before launching the Serpents and when possible have at least twice the number of Snakes as the enemy has fighter flights, preferably with a Brokados to give them dogfight +1.
 
Raider Nova...it is too slow but what really got me was the beam just wasn't good enough given the other choices.

Sky Serpents - they do tend to die if you are up against anyone with dogfighters. I will sometimes pair with Falkosi flights and a Brokadoes...stack the falkosi in a ring around two or three sky serpents so there is no place to touch the serpents...better than escorting. Harder to do if using counters due to coners reaching in between, fairly easy with the hex bases/round GW bases. Same should work with the native star snakes...I just rarely use them as I am not that fond of the drazi battle hulls, too expensive given the need for initiative sinks and not having a good one at patrol in the main fleet.

Ripple
 
If you are trying for a Drazi only fleet (Eek) try taking a Darkhawk or two very fragile but they have a long range front (not boresight) arc weapon which can actually scratch a ship.

All Stop / CAf with them and then it gives you a chance to boresight.

At War level for Brakiri the Tashkat/Takata are pretty decent but they cant dish it out well enough to stand up to the big boys (They sure can take it though).
 
Nothing wrong with the Warbird, tough little ships. Its the Stormfalcon/Nightfalcon I find just not quite up to par, especially given the prevalence of decent patrol choices in other fleets.

Pure Drazi fleets often find themselves in the position of having to try to play the other guys game. There just are not that many manuever options in the fleet if you want to shoot. (no all power, no all stop, no caf to scare, rarely even cbd) An opponent can be fairly sure where you will be and what you'll be targeting. With a couple of Corvan/Hermes/fast ships that got behind the Drazi line last turn sinks he can also guarantee that you will have at least several ships not firing at anything in most games. This is the only fleet I know where I consider squadroning up to have real downsides. For fleet that is supposed to be the 'fighter jocks' of space they are actually one of the least manueverable and lightest hitting in their pl...hard to hit if you buy the right hulls though.

Now the Darkhawk does change that a bit....but its so fragile all someone has to do is look at it hard. (or jbp it...one bomb with a crit is usually about all it takes) I've tried using them a number of times and found them to be an awfully good way of raising my opponents vp totals.

Ripple
 
Now the Darkhawk does change that a bit....but its so fragile all someone has to do is look at it hard. (or jbp it...one bomb with a crit is usually about all it takes) I've tried using them a number of times and found them to be an awfully good way of raising my opponents vp totals.

Agreed, 1000 times agreed! But it is the best (I have found - if anyone knows a better let me know) of a series of bad options also you can leave the super heavy fighters on escort so when something jumps in on the poor defenseless Darkhawks the get jumped by 8AD fighters.

We just need to wait until 2e when they will give Sunhawks a balancing mechanic (maybe 5+/6+ dodge?)

For fleet that is supposed to be the 'fighter jocks' of space they are actually one of the least manueverable and lightest hitting in their pl...

I hope that they will give Sunhawks dogfight score (but not necessarily a good one!) to represent the fact that a Drazi pilot WILL do somehing that stupid with something that big.
 
They also need a raid lvl ship that doesn't have a slow loading beam. Maybe a secondary weapon similar to the Centauri Matter Cannon. The Star Snake does need some more firepower, maybe 2AD normal & +1 Dogfight. The Darkhawk either needs higher hull or hits.
 
They also need a raid lvl ship that doesn't have a slow loading beam.

I'd be quite happy with the Solarhawk if they just took slow loading off the beam :)

On the other hand most of my opponents 'enforce' the slow loading by wiping it off the face of the stars so would it really make a difference.
 
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