Kutai!

[animus]

You know why I hate the Kutai, I mean beyond the fact that the ship is the biggest lemon in the Centrauri fleet? It's two fold.

1) When you open the SFOS book, the Kutai is shown in the same spread as the Maximus and the Mograth - 2 decent skirmish ships. In looking at these pages, no one will choose the lowly Kutai over these other obvious choices - the ship is just not up to par and it's obvious. It's closer to the Haven (Patrol), which is also on the same spread.

2) People who actually buy Centauri models will undoubtedly buy the box sets, in which case they have 2 of them (I have 4). Thus people who support the game with actual miniature purchases are buying models for ships that are lame and will never see battle. It's a fine "how do you do," to quote and American saying.

Does anyone think that this ship is right? Am I up in the night in asking for someone to please fix the Kutai - either double the damage and crew for Skirmish or drop it to Patrol so I can use it. There's a new S&P out every month - how 'bout a quick fix.

Next week, the Troligan. 8)

 

[Obsidian]

Have yo looked at the original stats for the Kutai? http://uk.geocities.com/l_b_h@btinternet.com/Pre-SFOS_Static/Centauri_Republic/Kutai.htm Bit sturdier and a lot more heavily armed than the later version, but it does lose out on the dodge capability.

It was kind of like the Maximus with the twin linked weapons in all arcs that got nerfed pretty hard moving to SFoS. Not saying it wasn't needed, just saying the Maximus went through a BIG change between the two versions.

 

[Sulfurdown]

Originally I thought it was supposed to be a on the order of a PT gunboat or such. Fast and maneuverable with a little bit of bite, until I've come to the realization that "fast and maneuverable" means squat in most games. It’s one of those ships that try to be up gunned and compensate with survivability to remain in the PL which generally means that you have to be incredibly careful with deployment or use them as bait because it’s too slow and it’s weapons are too short to be able to do much unless it’s only going against patrol ships (excluding fighters). AoG had it set up to be a heavy gunship with more matter cannons and few twin particle arrays, slower to move but a bear once it’s in range.

(As for Havens - I fielded them once or twice, the last time in a 5pt raid I took three, they lasted long enough to be destroyed by one shot a piece from a Sagittarius, doing nothing in return. Then again - they did allow for an initiative sink.)

 

[Ben2]

Whereas in B5W the Kutai and plasma Kutai were fairly nasty (4 matter cannon shots down the throat, and 2 for the pass next turn) and the Haven was one of the best little ships out there (4 TAs and a matter cannon on an agile hull for 325 points, great little escort that has enough initiative to catch heavy fighters).
I do think that the police ships have suffered a bit in ACTA, and seem to be very easy to destroy. Whether the answer is to toughen them up or have them bought at priority level patrol in pairs is up to the players to lobby for.

 

[H]

You know why I hate the Kutai, I mean beyond the fact that the ship is the biggest lemon in the Centrauri fleet? It's two fold.

1) When you open the SFOS book, the Kutai is shown in the same spread as the Maximus and the Mograth - 2 decent skirmish ships. In looking at these pages, no one will choose the lowly Kutai over these other obvious choices - the ship is just not up to par and it's obvious. It's closer to the Haven (Patrol), which is also on the same spread.

2) People who actually buy Centauri models will undoubtedly buy the box sets, in which case they have 2 of them (I have 4). Thus people who support the game with actual miniature purchases are buying models for ships that are lame and will never see battle. It's a fine "how do you do," to quote and American saying.

Does anyone think that this ship is right? Am I up in the night in asking for someone to please fix the Kutai - either double the damage and crew for Skirmish or drop it to Patrol so I can use it. There's a new S&P out every month - how 'bout a quick fix.

Next week, the Troligan. 8)

ahh, a centauri ship is broken thread. Not seen one for a few days now.

 

[katadder]

instead of asking for all these fixes in S&P just wait for 2e, you never know what you might find.

 

[Triggy]

Of course, forum suggestions are a valuable tool for judging the majority of opinion in how a ship should be "fixed" in future editions. If enough people jump on the bandwagon, it normally comes to fruition.

 

[katadder]

yeah, nothing wrong with suggesting the changes, but everyone expects them to be done here and now in S&P straight away. no patience. the Kutai has been like that since SFOS anyway

 

[Triggy]

True, true - it's only since the people started tailing off their criticisms of the good Centauri ships that the people calling for some of the lemons to be upgraded have been heard!

 

[Sulfurdown]

ahh, a centauri ship is broken thread. Not seen one for a few days now.

Every fleet has their black sheep. Centauri seem to have both ends of the spectrum... typical bell curve stuff.

 

[Target]

Most of Centauri threads call for ships like the Prefect to be toned down and ships we don't use eg Kutai, Haven be giving something so when actually field them. I've been campaigning for the Haven to be changed since 1st edition well not campaigning as such but complaining whenever a broken thread comes.
The reason centauri players what this is so we can field a fleet that isn't a Primus accompanied by 2 Sulust/Prefects and 3 Corvans (5pt Raid).
It's pretty hard to beat this fleet and dead simple to use. We would dearly love to use fast attack ships but we all know what happens. In this game maneuverbility doesn't really matter much at all. We also really want to have a use or our models otherwise they a really complete waste of money.

 

[animus]

instead of asking for all these fixes in S&P just wait for 2e, you never know what you might find.

Because I own 4 of them and want to use them this year.

 

[Target]

only have 2 Kutai but bought 8 haven accidently, only wanted 4 but they actually do comes in 2's.

 

[Ripple]

Please lets not start the 'wait for second edition' comments that caused Armeggedon to be such a disappointment. For the better part of a year we were constantly told to just shut up and wait for Arm., Arm. would solve all out issues. Instead it confirmed a few minor changes and removed a large number of what many of us considered 'fixes' from the tourney list.

I think threads clearly stating what folks think is valuable in a ship or lacking is a good use of the forum. This appears to be the primary feedback column from the wider player base to the company and we should not discourage threads describing what we would like to see. The product cycle is already a huge problem with getting what we want due to the changes from one book not even being played before the next version is already being playtested. Lets not hamper things further by forcing folks to wait until its too late to make suggestions.

Ripple

 

[katadder]

as i said, never stated that, just that people are impatient and want all these fixes in S&P. if you go by the one ship every so often being redone in S&P then it will be years before they all got fixed as theres quite a few need fixing.
by all means suggest fixes etc for any ship as it does give ideas, but just have patience

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Please lets not start the 'wait for second edition' comments that caused Armeggedon to be such a disappointment. For the better part of a year we were constantly told to just shut up and wait for Arm., Arm. would solve all out issues. Instead it confirmed a few minor changes and removed a large number of what many of us considered 'fixes' from the tourney list.

I think threads clearly stating what folks think is valuable in a ship or lacking is a good use of the forum. This appears to be the primary feedback column from the wider player base to the company and we should not discourage threads describing what we would like to see. The product cycle is already a huge problem with getting what we want due to the changes from one book not even being played before the next version is already being playtested. Lets not hamper things further by forcing folks to wait until its too late to make suggestions.

Ripple

But of course, no one can voice an opinion about the Centauri fleet list without being flamed around here.

 

[H]

Damn right, pointy haired buggers!!

 

[Silvereye]

.... I do think that the police ships have suffered a bit in ACTA, and seem to be very easy to destroy. Whether the answer is to toughen them up or have them bought at priority level patrol in pairs is up to the players to lobby for.

With 1 Nial flight for a Patrol point, hopefully that is not going to happen.

 

[animus]

.... I do think that the police ships have suffered a bit in ACTA, and seem to be very easy to destroy. Whether the answer is to toughen them up or have them bought at priority level patrol in pairs is up to the players to lobby for.

With 1 Nial flight for a Patrol point, hopefully that is not going to happen.

Ya, stuff like this makes me wonder. What are they thinking? I know playtesting is tough and there's lots of ships, but there sure seems to be some glaring problems when comparing ships, races and PL's. I'm lobbying for the Kutai now, but the Minbari need some help too.

 

[locarno24]

I do get that the Kutai is the oldest ship in service with the Centauri fleet by about 20 years, so it shouldn't be powerful, but to me that suggests it should be a bit tougher (possibly slower, more hit points, early EA style).....or be smaller enough to be a patrol ship.

As noted by everyone and their dog, a priority level is a priority level. Unless fleet selection is taken out of a players hands by either some random reinforcements table or a strict in service date limit (which would leave the Centauri fleet initially only able to field Kutais...then Morgraths, Havens and Altarians after about 15-20 years), The Kutai is out and out not as good as other options.