Jordan's Conan stories

[LucaCherstich]

I want to read some un-canon stuff.
Are Jordan's stories good?

 

[VincentDarlage]

Jordan's Conan works are okay. Some are better than others. I liked Conan the Unconquered, but I haven't read them since I was a teenager - and, frankly, my taste as a teenager wasn't particularly discriminating.

 

[Aholibamah]

That one is certainly one of the better ones. However the "Conan the Swordsman" compilation is really one of the best sets, especially as it attempts to fill in the blanks after some of the stories. (Beyond the Black River, Black Colossus, etc)

BTW Vincent what did you like about "Conan the Unconquered"?

 

[The King]

I didn't read them all (only 3: Conan the destroyer, Conan the magnificient and Conan the Triumphant).
They are all very enjoyable but the best IMO is Conan the triumphant. Beyond the childishness between Conan and the girl (Karela ?), the plot and the story are excellent.

 

[DaveNC]

I actually like the late Robert Jordan Conan stories. They are some fo the best Conan pastiche that is out there. When compared with REH, nothing is going to measure up, but they are fun sword and sorcery stories. When reading the Conan pastiche, it has always helped me to seperate REH's Conan from the Conan in the pastiche stories. I think of the pastiche Conan as an adventurer who happens to share the same name and some of the same attributes of the REH Conan.

The two hardcovers collect all six of Jordan's Conan stories: "The Conan Chronicles" and "The Further Chronicles of Conan". Last I knew, you could get both books at Amazon for, like, $20. The stories are well written, action packed and Conan gets a LOT of "action".

Enjoy and let us know what you think.

 

[Willowhugger]

I think the earliest ones are best actually.

It's also very very very much the same story.

Conan vs. Some Wizard.

Robert Jordan also creates the only returning Conan Love interest.

 

[Old Bear]

I'm afraid I don't have much of a regard for Jordan's work and his Conan pastiches in particular. Painfully formulaic at times and obvious to the point of slapstick.

 

[Willowhugger]

I'm afraid I don't have much of a regard for Jordan's work and his Conan pastiches in particular. Painfully formulaic at times and obvious to the point of slapstick.

I think one should take them for what they are. Pastiches are always a mixed bag. I enjoyed Conan of Venarium as a pastiche, even it was clear that Harry Turtledove apparently substituted "Celts/Scottish/Irish" for Cimmerians.

However, I think the Jordan pastiches are very entertaining yarns in their own right and far better than the Wheel of Time. Its sort of like a James Bond movie, except in Hyborea. Conan shows up, someone buxom needs rescuing, and he deals with it.

It also has its poor Red Sonya/Belit substitute in the Red Hawk.

 

[Old Bear]

For me the only really good pastiches (and I have always tended to think of them as being as canon as Howard in truth) are by Sprague de Camp and Lin Carter. Perhaps it was because they were all available in paperback at the same time and were more often than not finishings or alterations of Howard's original ideas, and as such to me felt seamless. In fact even now I have to look at a cover to remind myself of which are originals and which are by those two guys.

Since then for me there has been a feel of writers hitching a somewhat parasitic ride on the back of somebody else's genius.

 

[Willowhugger]

Since then for me there has been a feel of writers hitching a somewhat parasitic ride on the back of somebody else's genius.

Bizarrely, I can't help but avoid those because I know they're essentially stolen.

While Harry Turtledove, Jordan, and others are loving tributes to an author they loved.

 

[VincentDarlage]

While Harry Turtledove, Jordan, and others are loving tributes to an author they loved.

I don't recall ever hearing that those authors were REH fans, but just authors for hire.

 

[Old Bear]

Yes, I have to agree with Vincent. If anything, Sprague de Camp and Carter were the ones lovingly adding finishing touches to Howard's work in many cases at a time when the Conan franchise as it is now was pretty much non-existent.

 

[VincentDarlage]

Yeah, whatever mistakes de Camp and Carter made are completely made up and forgiven by me because if it were not for de Camp and Carter (with some help by F. Frazetta), we probably would never have heard of Conan - and there certainly wouldn't be an RPG of Conan. I still have a set of Lancer and a set of Ace paperbacks sitting on the shelf of my desk. If it wasn't for de Camp's efforts with the Gnome Press books, and his later efforts with Lancer, Conan would have disappeared along with most of the works from the pulp era.

Most of the Tor series, however, were done by "genre writers" who happily write in whatever genre is paying them. Steve Perry, for example, (who wrote a few of the Tor Conans) writes Star Wars novels (among other things). The AoC novelists are well-known for their willingness to write in whatever genre desired - and are not particularly known for creating their own worlds. If I understand correctly, their agents simply find them work writing in someone else's playground. Some of the Tor writers went on to writing their own material (although I found Jordan's Wheel of Time books to be so derivitive as to be unreadable).

Not that they are bad authors, but L. Sprague de Camp at least maintained the closest anyone has to Howard's "atmosphere." As an adult, I can tell the difference between Howard and de Camp, but as a teen-ager, I couldn't.

 

[Willowhugger]

I don't recall ever hearing that those authors were REH fans, but just authors for hire.

Harry Turtledove and Jordan both had their own series well before they started doing Conan. It seems they requested the opportunity to do Conan pastiches out of love of the character.

 

[VincentDarlage]

Harry Turtledove and Jordan both had their own series well before they started doing Conan. It seems they requested the opportunity to do Conan pastiches out of love of the character.

And your proof? Having one's first novel (in 1980) published a mere two years before the Conan novel (1982) doesn't necessarily constitute a "well before" for Jordan.

Anyway, "it seems?" How does it "seem" that way? Do you have an interview or quote that establishes this?

Here is a quote from an interview with R. Jordan:

"In a way that novel led to me meeting my wife, and it led to me getting my first novel published. Because she knew about that manuscript, when Tom Doherty got the rights to do the Conan novels, he needed the first one very fast so that it would come out the same time the movie came out. And he knew that I had once written a 98,000 word novel in 13 days.

So he thought I could write something fast, and he was right, and I liked it. It was fun writing something completely over the top, full of purple prose, and in a weak moment I agreed to do five more and the novelization of the second Conan movie."

If you read the whole interview, he never once mentions reading REH, or mentions him as an influence. He got the Conan job because his wife was an editor of the book publisher who got the rights to do more Conan novels - and he could write it fast.

http://www.sfrevu.com/ISSUES/2003/0301/Feature%20Interview%20-%20Robert%20Jordan/Interview.htm

So.... it "seems" he was an author-for-hire, not a loving fan.

 

[Willowhugger]

And he wrote 5 more books.

:roll:

Honestly, believe what you will.

 

[VincentDarlage]

And he wrote 5 more books.

Robert Jordan: "...and in a weak moment I agreed to do five more..."

Yeah, that sounds like a fan talking.

Honestly, believe what you will.

I will believe the evidence. You've offered none.

By the way, the evidence suggests Harry Turtledove is an L. Sprague de Camp fan... NOT a Robert E. Howard fan. (see http://www.sfsite.com/09a/saht207.htm)

Where is your evidence?

 

[Willowhugger]

I don't consider it an argument.

Robert Jordan wrote five very enjoyable Conan books and I find them detailed in Howard, even if he's not particularly anything like the man's style. The interview isn't very flattering but it doesn't repudiate the possibility of being a fan either.

You might be right, I confess. I guess I prefer to keep an illusion than the truth since those books got me into Conan. Call it thinking the best of authors.

Even if I can't do it for the originals.

 

[Old Bear]

98,000 words in 13 days...the term "never mind the quality, feel the width" comes to mind. It also explains the quality of the book in question.

far more, IMHO, that it's a case of a bloke getting the rights and wanting something instant return on it, and very little to ddo wwith love. Now don't get me wwrong, I'm not having a pop at him for wanting a return on his investment, but let's not be confusing it with love or anything.

 

[Old Bear]

You might be right, I confess. I guess I prefer to keep an illusion than the truth since those books got me into Conan. Call it thinking the best of authors.

Even if I can't do it for the originals.

Anybody working in the publishing business for a little bit quickly loses that... :wink: