ISA vs the Vree, round 2

The Adept

Mongoose
Hello there!

I had another game against the ISA with my Vree (but against a different opponent). It was a 6 point raid, and we rolled up the normal A Call To Arms. The lists were:

ISA
3 x White Star II
1 x White Star
4 x Blue Star
8 x White Star Fighters

Vree
3 x Xill Battle Saucer
4 x Xeel War Carrier (carrying all Tzymms)
2 x Vaarl Scout Saucer

It’s been said in the past that you can sometimes tell who’s gonna win by the lists. So go on, try it. Don’t read the rest first, I’ll know if you’re cheating. You decided? Sure? Okay, you can read on now.

I can’t remember it well enough for a turn by turn account, so I’ll just do my best. I do remember I won initiative for the first two turns, which was nice, and a random turn or two later.

I had to set up first, so I put a scout in each corner of my DZ, then loaded all my other ships on the left, apart from one Xeel which went on the right. The ready-launched fighters went in the middle, so they could go where they were needed. He loaded most of his stuff on the right (my POV), with only a couple of WSs facing my main force. There was a few bits of terrain, but they didn’t really do much.

The first couple of turns saw him sweep forward to try for my lone Xeel and right hand Vaarl. He rapidly found that Vree are very hard to pin down when you’ve only got front guns, let alone fewer ships and are moving first. I was able to avoid most shots, while blowing big holes in the trailing WS (crippling it) as my main force came round behind the attacking ISA. A slight beam hit knocked out the anti-matter shredder on the lead Xill, but it was repaired (thanks to All Hands On Deck) the next turn. Every WS I crippled all game lost its self-repair, which was nice!

Thanks to Scramble! Scramble!, I had six Tzymms in the middle (four starting, plus two launched), which were engaged by two Nial flights. The 3-on-1 dogfights were a straight roll off, with a flight from each side going away. The WS fighters (all 8 of them!) and the last Nial went after a Xeel which had stuck its head out too far. A couple fell to AF (including the Nial), but the WS fighters blew the hell out of the Xeel, to the tune of about 20 damage over it’s limit. One big explosion later, and only one WS fighter is left, and that one catches the business end of a Xills antimatter cannon.

The next couple of turns saw some dancing around from the ISA, as they started to give up chasing the scout, and try to engage my main force. The Vaarl skipped around a couple of blue stars, staying out the way. The crippled WS took up the chase, while the others turned to shoot at other things. I lost the other scout (seven hits from a 2AD beam!), and one Xill. He lost two Blue Stars and a WS – they were swarmed by fighters to weaken them, then finished off by the capital ships. Another WS took concentrated fire and lost his defensive traits, only to be finished off shortly afterwards.

The fat lady had sung for the ISA, as the last WSs were hunted down for few Vree losses. In the end, I’d lost a Xill, both Vaarls and a Xeel (that’s a Raid and three Skirmish), and the ISA had lost everything.

The turning points were the loss of 4 Patrol points of WS fighter to the ship they destroyed, and the devastating round of fire from ten flights of Tzymms and several capital ships which destroyed two Blue Stars and a White Star, which was about half what he had left at that point.

Once again, the White Stars found themselves against an enemy they couldn’t outmanoeuvre, and it cost them.
 
It seems you played to your strengths and played well (helped by some good crits / trait loss - which is always useful ........... :) )

He IMHO may have been better - destroying your fighters with his superior dogfighters before going after your ships.........even maybe having a fighter or two as interceptors against your fire.........

I presume he was using CBDoors a lot?

good report - :)
 
I don't think he closed blast doors at all. He waas using Come About (to get 135 degree turns!), as well as concentrate all fire for the WS secondary weapons. I don't think he knows the special orders too well!

He should have come after my fighters with his fighters - he had no 3"+ guns on the fighters, making attacking my ships dangerous due to AF. With his lack of AF, and front only guns, my fighters were a real threat to his ships (Tzymms have 7AD each). Once the WS fighters died to the blast, and the nials get jumped by many Tzymms, my fighters had free reign.

I hope to get a game against a non-ISA fleet next week!
 
The Adept said:
I don't think he closed blast doors at all. He waas using Come About (to get 135 degree turns!), as well as concentrate all fire for the WS secondary weapons. I don't think he knows the special orders too well!!

With little terrain to hide and his superior range on the beams I would have thought it was pretty useful to CBD and sit back - using fighters as interceptors as required and jumping yours if they came in at him?

The Adept said:
He should have come after my fighters with his fighters - he had no 3"+ guns on the fighters, making attacking my ships dangerous due to AF. With his lack of AF, and front only guns, my fighters were a real threat to his ships (Tzymms have 7AD each). Once the WS fighters died to the blast, and the nials get jumped by many Tzymms, my fighters had free reign.

I hope to get a game against a non-ISA fleet next week!
 
I can't say that is too surprising. The Vree have some nice ships at low priority levels and Vree aren't one of the easier opponents for the ISA, especially at low priorities. The ISA kinda have to keep the Vree at medium ranges. If the ISA gets too close, the Vree will simply scuttle sideways out of the whitestars' 1 weapon arc. ISA beams also don't benefit at all from low Vree hull numbers while Vree antimatter weapons very much like the lower ISA hulls.

Lastly, I have no idea why the ISA player used Whitestar fighters. He should've used Thunderbolts. The Vree have some wicked AF defenses. Thunderbolts can at least shoot from outside the defense zone and they are cheaper.

Tzarevitch
 
The fact that there is virtually no situation in which the ISA should not use some Gaim should tell you something about the Gaim.

Ripple
 
That they compliment each other greatly?








"What a nice sheen to your hull, White Star!"
"Why thank you, Stuteeka! And may I say, your fighters are doing an excellent job dieing today, old chap!"
 
No, that they're spectacularly busted.

You probably know that, but I just thought I'd be clear. How fleets like this get beyond the designer's pen is absolutely beyond me. Perhaps because there was no other obstacle applied...that's what happened with the Troligan II.

*Shudder.*

Anyway, no one should have suprised by this result --- the Tyzmm is on my list of top 20 ships to fix (yes, I have a whiteboard of this at work; it's #8. The top 4 are "The Whole Gaim Fleet", Demos, Bimith, and Shadow Fighter, in that order. In the name of full disclosure, it should be noted that the White Star versions are #14.)
 
Taking WS fighters was almost certainly a mistake for ISA in this match...

Probably would/should have taken:

3 x White Star II
2 x White Star
4 x Blue Star

OR

2 x White Star II
2 x White Star
8 x Blue Star

As others have iterated, keep the range open a bit so the Vree can't get out of arc, CBD like crazy when you can't use the Molecular Pulsars, and use those Pulsars to kill off his fighters. Concentrate on the scouts first, if you can, but don't ignore his fleet to do so: you can't afford it.
 
If you really want the fighters, an EA Avenger Carrier loaded with Aurora Starfurys would be the way to go (ignoring the Gaim option). Same quality of fighters but gives you a chance to recover them too and a Command bonus.
 
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