Intricate Swordplay question
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Sutek
Mongoose
Nope. A charismatic Pirate that Dodges a bunch with an Arming Sword, Shield and medium armor of some kind along with Intricate Swordplay and Combat Expertise could prove to be a tough foe to tag.
However, he's gonna run out of 5 foot spaces to Dodge into eventually, and with only Medim Armor, any strike that deals enough damage will also likely penetrate it.
Put it another way, due to the damage that can potentially be dealt in the Conan RPG, one good hit can be enough, so no tactic is completely "unbreakable" or "too good".
However, he's gonna run out of 5 foot spaces to Dodge into eventually, and with only Medim Armor, any strike that deals enough damage will also likely penetrate it.
Put it another way, due to the damage that can potentially be dealt in the Conan RPG, one good hit can be enough, so no tactic is completely "unbreakable" or "too good".
Errr, which question of mine are you answering? Presumably Yes to the first, No to the second?
Intricate swordplay works only when parrying, so you won't be running out of spaces to dodge into, and is more effective for a soldier than Pirate. And if by "difficult to tag" you mean "requires a 20 to hit", then I agree. By a "good hit" I presume you mean a critical, which is a 1 in 400 shot against someone you need a 20 to hit... not exactly a large weakness.
I'm curious, which feats that are as easy to get as Intricate Swordplay do you think are better than it? I suppose being limited to Medium armor is a big weakness, although with a Breastplate you're not so far behind heavy armor. Being able to get a 4+ bonus to defense out of a single feat is pretty damn good!
Intricate swordplay works only when parrying, so you won't be running out of spaces to dodge into, and is more effective for a soldier than Pirate. And if by "difficult to tag" you mean "requires a 20 to hit", then I agree. By a "good hit" I presume you mean a critical, which is a 1 in 400 shot against someone you need a 20 to hit... not exactly a large weakness.
I'm curious, which feats that are as easy to get as Intricate Swordplay do you think are better than it? I suppose being limited to Medium armor is a big weakness, although with a Breastplate you're not so far behind heavy armor. Being able to get a 4+ bonus to defense out of a single feat is pretty damn good!
Sutek
Mongoose
I agree, a +4 is pretty nice. Didnt' catch that it was a Parry only Feat, but still...it can't last forever.
Average 1st level Pirate won't have enough Feat slots to take both Intricate Swordplay and Combat Expertise, so presumably you're talking about a 3rd level character. DV for a Parrying DEX 18 Pirate should be 19, and armor doesn't add to DV in Conan. Up to +5 from Expertise and +4 from an 18 CHA from Intricate Swordplay should bring him up to 28DV.
But...
The character needs more than just Expertise and Intricate swordplay to pull this off. Prerequisites for Swordplay are Weapon Focus, Parry and Expertise so 4 Feat slots (including Swordplay) are necessary. This will likely make for a 9th level Pirate, increasing that to 31DV.
But a soldier has a BAB of +9/+4 at 9th level and that drops the effective DV to at least 22. STR 18 effectively makes it 18 and Weapon Focus and other feats make it even easier to land a blow.
It's not excessive, but it is good.
Average 1st level Pirate won't have enough Feat slots to take both Intricate Swordplay and Combat Expertise, so presumably you're talking about a 3rd level character. DV for a Parrying DEX 18 Pirate should be 19, and armor doesn't add to DV in Conan. Up to +5 from Expertise and +4 from an 18 CHA from Intricate Swordplay should bring him up to 28DV.
But...
The character needs more than just Expertise and Intricate swordplay to pull this off. Prerequisites for Swordplay are Weapon Focus, Parry and Expertise so 4 Feat slots (including Swordplay) are necessary. This will likely make for a 9th level Pirate, increasing that to 31DV.
But a soldier has a BAB of +9/+4 at 9th level and that drops the effective DV to at least 22. STR 18 effectively makes it 18 and Weapon Focus and other feats make it even easier to land a blow.
It's not excessive, but it is good.
You can easily get this feat at 2nd level as a soldier, or 3rd level w/ 2 Pirate and 1 Soldier. A fifth level soldier with this feat and the same 18 Str (for parrying) and Cha (a bit high, but I'll use the same numbers) can have:
10 +4 (Str) +4 (Cha) +1 (Parry Feat) + 4 (Shield) +5 (Expertise) +3 (Base Parry) = 31 defense. Effectively 33 when you work in Steely Gaze.
A corresponding 5th level soldier with 18 STR, weapon focus, and an akbitanian weapon gets +11 to hit -- and needs to roll a 20. This isn't some average opponent either, but a really good one! The difference will roughly stay the same at higher levels, as the fast growth of base attack is offset by stat growth in both Str and Cha.
With a Shield and the parry feat this other soldier's defense will be 22, and he'll be hit on a 16 or better (accounting for use of Expertise).
That's 5 to 1, and it jumps to 9 to 1 if the victem foregoes a shield. Pretty good for a single feat! If both parties have Expertise this is offset somewhat, but even then it's a strong advantage.
On the other hand, if your opponent is dressed in Full Plate wielding a Greatsword, it'll be difficult to get the Finesse attack you need to bypass his armor while using Expertise, and you end up with about the same chance of finessing the plate mail as you have of getting hit by the Greatsword through Medium Armor if you don't use Expertise, which seems about even.
I suppose in the end I'm convinced it's not broken, just really good. The saving grace is that Heavy Armor and Two Handed Weapons are innately so devestating in Conan, plus it takes a feat and good stats. Still, your opponent better have Full Plate and Sense Motive. ;-)
10 +4 (Str) +4 (Cha) +1 (Parry Feat) + 4 (Shield) +5 (Expertise) +3 (Base Parry) = 31 defense. Effectively 33 when you work in Steely Gaze.
A corresponding 5th level soldier with 18 STR, weapon focus, and an akbitanian weapon gets +11 to hit -- and needs to roll a 20. This isn't some average opponent either, but a really good one! The difference will roughly stay the same at higher levels, as the fast growth of base attack is offset by stat growth in both Str and Cha.
With a Shield and the parry feat this other soldier's defense will be 22, and he'll be hit on a 16 or better (accounting for use of Expertise).
That's 5 to 1, and it jumps to 9 to 1 if the victem foregoes a shield. Pretty good for a single feat! If both parties have Expertise this is offset somewhat, but even then it's a strong advantage.
On the other hand, if your opponent is dressed in Full Plate wielding a Greatsword, it'll be difficult to get the Finesse attack you need to bypass his armor while using Expertise, and you end up with about the same chance of finessing the plate mail as you have of getting hit by the Greatsword through Medium Armor if you don't use Expertise, which seems about even.
I suppose in the end I'm convinced it's not broken, just really good. The saving grace is that Heavy Armor and Two Handed Weapons are innately so devestating in Conan, plus it takes a feat and good stats. Still, your opponent better have Full Plate and Sense Motive. ;-)
I've considered a Zingaran Noble with this setup. They get extra parry bonuses. It proved fairly effective in playtesting, but weak against some other highly specialized setups. For example, this setup is prone to being sundered and grappled, two approaches that pretty much ignore DV. I also suspect tripping is effective, but my 1st edition book does not mention the consequences of being tripped.
All of these specialized builds have weaknesses. Some may have less weaknesses than others, but effective character design is still a bit of a rock-paper-scissors game.
All of these specialized builds have weaknesses. Some may have less weaknesses than others, but effective character design is still a bit of a rock-paper-scissors game.
Nope, being prone means you take a -4 penalty to melee attack rolls while any opponents gain a +4 bonus to their melee attack rolls against you. You also gain a +4 bonus to DV versus ranged attack rolls (and may gain the benefits of cover depending on the terrain and your DM's rulling) but cannot use a bow or sling at all, you may still use a x-bow however. But you still get your Dex bonus as normal.Sutek said:
As for Intricate Swordplay, the feat is good but I haven't had any balance issues with it. It requires 4 feats and some darn good stats to take advantage of it. More importantly in comparrison with the other styles it isn't gamebreaking. I mean, seriously now, are we worried that sword 'n board might be too powerful? Heaven forbid!
Arkobla Conn
Mongoose
I just created a 1st level soldier, 5th level border and he has Intricate Swordplay.
With this combo, and Soldier being first level as a Meadow Shemite, I got 5 feats to choose. Decided on Weapon Focus, Parry, Combat Expertise, Intricate Swordplay and Improved Feint (for which I had to spend alot of skill points on since it's not a class skill)
With the border at 5th level, this gives me Improved Two Weapon Combat.
I take this to mean I get 3 attacks per round, 2 for the base attack of +6/+1 and the third for Improved Two weapon.... or would I get *cough* 4 per round?? And would this be only during a full round action, or a normal attack action? I know Improved Feint is used during the move, so I need to find out how many attacks I do as a 'standard'.
Thanks
With this combo, and Soldier being first level as a Meadow Shemite, I got 5 feats to choose. Decided on Weapon Focus, Parry, Combat Expertise, Intricate Swordplay and Improved Feint (for which I had to spend alot of skill points on since it's not a class skill)
With the border at 5th level, this gives me Improved Two Weapon Combat.
I take this to mean I get 3 attacks per round, 2 for the base attack of +6/+1 and the third for Improved Two weapon.... or would I get *cough* 4 per round?? And would this be only during a full round action, or a normal attack action? I know Improved Feint is used during the move, so I need to find out how many attacks I do as a 'standard'.
Thanks
You only *ever* get multiple attacks as a full round action.
So you can never use Improved feint and then make multple attacks in the same round.
Even Greater Mobility doesn't counter-act this - it makes moving up to your speed part of the full attack action, it doesn't give you an extra move action.
So you can never use Improved feint and then make multple attacks in the same round.
Even Greater Mobility doesn't counter-act this - it makes moving up to your speed part of the full attack action, it doesn't give you an extra move action.
Arkobla Conn said:
A standard action can only ever be 1 attack. A full round action with Improved Two Weapon Combat and a BAB of +6/+1 will indeed give you 4 attacks (+6/+1 for each weapon). Without ITWC you would get 3 attacks (+6/+1 for primary weapon and +6 for off-hand). Remember that you will be at a penalty if one of you're weapons isn't light though.
Since Improved Feint is a move action this means you will only get 1 attack when you decide to feint. It might be worth it though, feinting can be real good if you're fighting an hard-to-hit opponent.
Hope that helps!
Arkobla Conn
Mongoose
Thank you Mayhem and Trodex.
You have summarized my recollections, but I just got too close to the numbers. Appeciate the help.
You have summarized my recollections, but I just got too close to the numbers. Appeciate the help.
