Initiaive Questions

[ericphillips]

Starting a game under the Mongoose rules, but have a couple of questions:

1. It says: "If some of the combatants are ready for combat and some are not, such as in an ambush, the prepared characters are considered to get an automatic 12 on their roll, giving them an Initiative of 12 + Dexterity DM."

Does this mean for that round only, and then next turn the initiative goes down to a regular rolled initiative, or does it stay at the 12+ figure forever. Seems like after sometime the surprise should wear off.

2. Hasten: Does "you can only hasten once" mean you can only use it once a combat, or once per round?

3. Delay: "If the character has not acted by the end of the round he may choose to act first in the next round, effectively giving up his actions in the previous round in exchange for an Initiative advantage. His new Initiative is set to one higher than that of the current first person in the order."

Does this mean his initiative is the new initiative from now on? Or does he go then go again on his regular initiative?


Thank you.

 

[Paladin]

1. "Once everyone has acted a combat round is over and a new round begins. Initiative is not re-rolled but is dynamic, and may be adjusted up and down by actions taken during a round. "

2. Once per rd.

3. Only a single action. Think of it as weighing your options and trying to perfect moment to act.

 

[ericphillips]

So in 3. the initiaitve stays hi? Right?

 

[Matian]

3) No, after going first the initiative returns to whatever it was after the delayed action. Shelley has an initiative of 6, but decides to wait until her comrades have drawn the hostiles out a bit more (delaying action). Once the hostiles have returned fire (concluding the round), she takes her aim and fires (acting before anyone else). After everyone else acts and reacts, she goes back to her normal pace.

Make sense?

 

[cbrunish]

3) No, after going first the initiative returns to whatever it was after the delayed action. Shelley has an initiative of 6, but decides to wait until her comrades have drawn the hostiles out a bit more (delaying action). Once the hostiles have returned fire (concluding the round), she takes her aim and fires (acting before anyone else). After everyone else acts and reacts, she goes back to her normal pace.

Make sense?

I took this to mean that the character would have a new initiative. It gets "set". Just my 2 cr. I could be wrong, if you ask my wife that would be many times. :lol:

 

[Matian]

I took this to mean that the character would have a new initiative. It gets "set". Just my 2 cr. I could be wrong, if you ask my wife that would be many times. :lol:

I'm not sure what you mean here, exactly.

I don't allow my players to keep the high initiative they get from delaying actions; it makes delaying actions overpowered, as you can give up one combat round and have the jump on everybody else. I always took the rule to mean that after the delayed action, you go back to your regular initiative, although I can see a case for re-rolling initiative for the character who delayed.

I don't worry about it too much. Initiative is only static until the first action.

 

[CosmicGamer]

For those that think delay should only affect one round, I'm sure you'll like this: page 60, right side, under dynamic initiative

Any changes affect your initiative for one round only

Now for those that think it should be permanently changed, page 60 only mentions reactions, recoil, and hastening and not delay. For this group, that believes initiative is 'set' for more than a single round (page 62, right side, under delay) the bummer factor is that when you delay and act later in the round, initiative is set to the lower value now for multiple rounds.

For me, initiative has always been problematic. The fact that random luck (a die roll) weighs heavier than a characters ability, the way initiative can 'follow' you through combat, and issues with delay and other modifications to initiative.

Did mercenary handle this differently?

 

[ericphillips]

Now that I look at it, you are actually giving up your action the previous turn. You are delaying into the next turn. So I am thinking it stays.

Now, the rules state: "During the course of a round a character’s Initiative score may be changed by reactions, recoil and hastening. Any changes affect your Initiative for one round only – either the current round if you have yet to act or the following round if you have acted already."

Notice: Doesn't mention Delay.

Wish Mongoose would rule on this.

 

[ned-kogar]

Yep, as a new player I'd love to see a ruling on this. Should we repost in The Rulesmasters?

Ned

 

[Treebore]

I think they use the word "set" for delays for a reason. So I think its pretty clear that a delay "Sets" their initiative to one higher than the person with the best, for good. It is then changed from there by recoil, etc...

I also think "realistic logic" could also be used here. If a person delays, giving up a full round of actions, they get to decide where in the initiative order they do get to act in the following round, which is "set" from that time on.

Makes sense to my sense of logic, at least.

 

[justacaveman]

Only helps if you survive to the 2nd round of combat. :wink:

 

[Stainless]

Hmmm. The bad guys appear, everyone pulls out their gun and then freezes waiting for something to happen. As they eye-ball each other they wait for the next round to start and then pounce! But now everyone is first and will be from now on. Errrr....

 

[ned-kogar]

Well, that certainly sounds how Tarantino handles it....

 

[Matian]

Hmmm. The bad guys appear, everyone pulls out their gun and then freezes waiting for something to happen. As they eye-ball each other they wait for the next round to start and then pounce! But now everyone is first and will be from now on. Errrr....

That's exactly why I have it reverting to your prior initiative after you make the delayed action. I had one positively disastrous one-shot where the party did nothing but delay initiative until one of them hit 20, convinced that that was how they'd "win". What should have been a fairly simple round of combat turned into a life-or-death struggle, as it gave the NPCs enough time to pinpoint their location and destroy a fair amount of cover.

Goddamn 4e players...