Independant Scholars

[MadDog]

In regards to Independant Scholars and how they gain spells.

According to the rules, an Independant Scholar has to make a DC 20 Knowledge(Arcana) check to be able to choose which style he/she gets from the list. I assume they also mean which spell and not just style.

So, lets assume we have a scholar going from 2 to 3rd level, and will get 2 advanced spells (one from being 3rd level, one bonus spell). If the scholar has the Divination and Hypnotism Styles, he/she has only 2 spells to choose from when reaching third level; Torment and Psychometry.

So what happens if the Scholar doesnt make the DC20 roll, but does make the DC10, which means the GM is supposed to assign 2 advanced spells ? Having only 2 spells available means there arent any others to assign.

Mad Dog

 

[Voltumna]

I think the rules somewhere say that you take one of the feats you can trade for a sorcery style. I am not sure though, I just had a bottle of wodka. I am surprised I can type.

I'll add to those feats Culling out the weak and Sense weakness.

 

[Turim]

I've always assumed that "may choose the style he will learn" is one of the many bugs in this book, and should instead be "style or spell" or simply "spell". The only other interpretation I can see would be that he only gets to choose which style his new Advanced Spell comes from, but then there is no described method to determine which spell he actually gets. In addition this would result in even very high-level Independents ending up with effectively random spells only. Also, this same interpretation applied to "If he fails, the Games Master will select a style for him at random from among those he does not currently know but for which he meets the prerequisites" when determining Advanced Spells would result in the Independent getting Advanced Spells outside of the styles he knows, still with no described method of determining exactly which Advanced Spell he ends up with.

Having only two spells available means that you'll get those two spells. This is one possible way to control your spell list, if you somehow can't get your Knowledge (arcana) to +10 (so you can take 10) by level 3. Just make sure you know which books your GM has, to prevent being surprised by undesirable spells .

 

[MadDog]

Its a badly worded section. While it initially talks about Styles and Spells, it then only switches into talking only about Styles.

Mad Dog

 

[Trodax]

So what happens if the Scholar doesnt make the DC20 roll, but does make the DC10, which means the GM is supposed to assign 2 advanced spells ? Having only 2 spells available means there arent any others to assign.

Yeah, this is a pretty annoying situation, and I don't really know how to handle it. It's also not all that unlikely, since quite a few of the Sorcery Styles have a rather limited number of low-level spells.

Personally, I'm not that fond of the rules for the Independent Scholar. I think the concept of different backgrounds for Scholars is cool, but I don't really like that Independents have to roll to get the spells they want. I think it would be better if the prerequisites of the spells were in some way higher for Independents, or something along those lines.
Has anyone come up with any good houserules for this?
Maybe a requirement that says that Independents must always keep Knowledge (arcana) at maximum ranks, instead of having to make the roll... Could that work?

I am not sure though, I just had a bottle of wodka. I am surprised I can type.

Damn! Perhaps you have the Carouser feat? :wink:

 

[MadDog]

I kind of like the roll, but there needs to be a ruling as to what happens. Maybe if the substitute feat selection was widened a bit that would take some of the sting out blowing a roll.

If you make the requirements harder for independants, they wont be able to take some of the spells. If there was a little more depth at the lower end of spell selection this wouldnt be a problem.

Mad Dog

 

[Turim]

Trodax, MadDog: The roll is mostly theoretical, at least for a PC sorcerer. You can take 10, which means you only need +5 at 1st level, and +10 at 3rd level. This is very easy to do, but it might require some commitments.

Maxing Knowledge (arcana) and putting at least 5 ranks in Decipher Script means you'll need 1 more plus at 1st level, and 2 more pluses at 3rd level. Intelligence can give this bonus (or it could give a penalty). Pelishtim Shemites, Stygians, Acheronians and possibly Hyborians have a +2 bonus. The Khitan has +1. Skill Focus gives +3, and Knowledgeable +2 (but you need Int 13). Of course, if the sorcerer already has a few levels in other classes he will be able to put more ranks in Knowledge (arcana).

The disadvantage of being an Independent really comes down to being unable to skimp on your Knowledge (arcana) at low levels, and not having the backing of a master or organization.

 

[MadDog]

Trodax, MadDog: The roll is mostly theoretical, at least for a PC sorcerer. You can take 10, which means you only need +5 at 1st level, and +10 at 3rd level. This is very easy to do, but it might require some commitments.

The roll is supposed to represent continuing searches for arcane knowledge, and while it doesnt explicitly prohibit taking 10, I bet any errata or ruling would say you cant take 10 on the roll. I would allow an Astrological Prediction bonus, but thats about it.

More low end spells. Thats what we need.

Mad Dog

 

[urdinaran]

Yeah, more low end spells. That was suggested in one of the other posts on a similar subject. Most of the Styles are very regimented in the progression of spells, not giving alot of variety.

 

[Raven Blackwell]

Yeah, more low end spells. That was suggested in one of the other posts on a similar subject. Most of the Styles are very regimented in the progression of spells, not giving alot of variety.

Doing my best about this- but I can only type so much between the cracks of my RL. 8)