In peoples opinion

[Anonymous]

Which classes are the most powerful...from least to greatest...mostly in game terms here (including all current source-books). Also which ones start out on the short end of the stick and then progress to become extremely powerful? Just curious about peoples opinions on this is all.

 

[Anonymous]

I think the Kai lord is the most powerful, followed by the Shianti, then either the BotCS or the Vakeros. However, a charging mounted KotR is deadly...

 

[Balgin Stondraeg]

I think the Kai lord is the most powerful, followed by the Shianti, then either the BotCS or the Vakeros. However, a charging mounted KotR is deadly...

Well the "Class Balance" note in the Shianti class that it wasn't designed for play balance and is intentionaly overpowered.....

Power all depends on what you consider powerful. Each does different things better than others. For example your chances of getting a Kai Lord with an AC over 23 without taking huge skill penalties are difficult (mail shirt, shield, dex, silver helmet) whereas a Knight of the Realm in full plate with a Sommerlund Great Shield and a dex bonus of at least +1 has an ac of 21 (and doesn't need the 18 dex the Kai Lord would to gain a large ac).

The Brotherhood healing spell needs the caster to be standing in a river or stream, not something you can always find when the situation calls for it. Then again the Magicians of Dessi don't need to make Occult rolls to cast their spells (unlike members of the Brotherhood). A Dwarven Gunner's abilities look good on paper but the fact that he only has a medium attack bonus (and needs to have so many high ability scores to be effective) balance it out. Amazons are pretty much unarmoured and Buccaneers have their flaws too.

It's all a matter of what you like. When people say power they generaly all mean different things so I'm going to try not to give any more specific answer than I already have (although from the above writing you may glean that perhaps I value survivability and durability as power, maybe not).

Whilst I'm not sure if I personaly see any particular class as being more powerful than any other the Kai Lord class is definately more flexible and variable than any other and as such offers the greatest potential to fit people's personal definition of power (since it can develope so many different ways as opposed to the others which tend to be a bit more linnear and predictable).

 

[Zipp Dementia]

I would say the Kai Lord is the strongest class, whereas the dwarf is the weakest.

 

[DuskFox]

I would say the Kai Lord is the strongest class, whereas the dwarf is the weakest.

The Shadaki Buccaneers actually end up weaker than the Dwarven Gunners--while the dwarves have plenty of problems with their class, the Shadaki Buccaneer seems sort of like the Bard of the LWRPG in that they just never come out ahead in anything, which is too bad because the class is so cool.

 

[toothill man]

dwarfs are not the weakest :evil: if used correctly and with full use of their guns and boom powder :wink: this makes them a real pain for the bad guys :twisted: also a homeland base most groups would dream off and a mighty intelligence service I think you will find the pirate are at the bottom and the dwarfs far from it 8)

 

[Zipp Dementia]

I don't see how the bucaneers can be bottom of the pack. They have the only sneak attack in the game (I don't have the supplements, so if there is a class with it there, forgive me), can weild two weapons, and are incredibly fast and agile. Sure, some of their abilities are related purely to the sea, but they make a decent rogue, in my opinion. I've seen worse.

 

[Balgin Stondraeg]

I don't see how the bucaneers can be bottom of the pack. They have the only sneak attack in the game (I don't have the supplements, so if there is a class with it there, forgive me), can weild two weapons, and are incredibly fast and agile. Sure, some of their abilities are related purely to the sea, but they make a decent rogue, in my opinion. I've seen worse.

The dwarf Gunner gets sneak attack too on all attacks within something like ten yards without even needing to be flanking or anything! Admitedly they don't get it at first level but they certainly do get it (by another name).

The gunner's main problem seems to be having a middle class attack bonus instead of a fighter class type attack bonus. All their class abilities more than compensate for this. The fact that they need to keep spending endurance to keep going can be nasty but then any decent dwarven gunner has a huge constitution anyway.

In fact, the only main problem I can see for the gunner is running out of ammunition at low levels.

 

[Zipp Dementia]

I don't see how the bucaneers can be bottom of the pack. They have the only sneak attack in the game (I don't have the supplements, so if there is a class with it there, forgive me), can weild two weapons, and are incredibly fast and agile. Sure, some of their abilities are related purely to the sea, but they make a decent rogue, in my opinion. I've seen worse.

The dwarf Gunner gets sneak attack too on all attacks within something like ten yards without even needing to be flanking or anything! Admitedly they don't get it at first level but they certainly do get it (by another name).

The gunner's main problem seems to be having a middle class attack bonus instead of a fighter class type attack bonus. All their class abilities more than compensate for this. The fact that they need to keep spending endurance to keep going can be nasty but then any decent dwarven gunner has a huge constitution anyway.

In fact, the only main problem I can see for the gunner is running out of ammunition at low levels.

I think, yeah, it was the endurance loss which made me do a double take at the Dwarf class, but I can see what you're saying. They kind've have the Mage's weakness in that area, only with endurance rather than willpower. I think what I was thinking was that in a heavy battle they could be taking themselves down pretty quick if overly besieged. By the way, I haven't seen the Magic of Magnamund, but I hear the classes in that are a lot more powerful than the original classes.

 

[Balgin Stondraeg]

They kind've have the Mage's weakness in that area, only with endurance rather than willpower.

They also get ten siders for hp so the loss isn't so much of a problem. Members of the Brotherhood of the Crystal Star only get 4 siders and they pay an endurance cost for spells too. Think how they must feel.

To play a Dwarf Gunner properly you should probably prioritise ability scores as follows:

1: Constitution
2: Strength (for encumbrance & the occassional bit of rough stuff if things get a little bit too close)
3: Intelligence (the mechanistic/scientific mind), Wisdom (Common Sense & general survival & awareness), & Dexterity (shooty stuff). Optionaly Dexterity could easily be considered as priority 2 up there with (or even above) strength.
4: Charisma (and maybe move Intelligence or Wisdom down with charisma if you've had a load of low rolls).

I suppose it'll depend a bit on how your GM allows you to generate ability scores. The best (pre d20) ability score rolling system I ever saw was a bit complicated but always worked out in your favour.

You rolled 7d6 and dropped the lowest one (giving you the highest 6 of 7).
You then assigned 1 (and only 1) of the die rolls to each ability score.

This process was then repeated twice more (thus allowing for some control but also a random factor). By the end of it you would have assigned the highest 18 of 21d6 to 6 different ability scores in batches of 6, each batch being assigned before the next bunch were rolled, thus no prior knowledge of future rolls would shape the distribution of the early rolls.

It's actualy quite a nice system (and gives better averages than the popular "roll the best 3 of 4 7 times, drop the lowest and put them where you want" method and by better averages I don't mean higher, I mean more average).

Oddly enough the pre generated Gunner in Dawn of Destruction has a pretty high constitution and his dexterity is only 10. He actualy fits my above priorities list fairly well when all his ability scores are taken into account. Scary, huh?

 

[Bon-Al Ironforge]

If I can weigh in on this...
I agree that their are many advantages to Dwarfs that are not readily apparent (ones that are more RP based, than number crunching based... so it all depends on the type of game that is being played as to the usefullness of the dwarfs)

I have mentioned this at PA, and at TotS, and now I am going to mention it here as well, the Kai are over-rated. They would not be able to go toe-to-toe with many other classes one on one, I think that Knights and BCS mages would take them out.

I do not think that any one class is the most powerful, it all depends on the type of game you play and how you play your charactor.

Al

 

[toothill man]

if you are a tower dwarf he is sir 8) and the bor are also fun to play my dwarf makes the typical drill sargent look like a pansy :twisted:

 

[Balgin Stondraeg]

I must agree. It's great fun being a dwarf. For starters you can experience what life is like for these crazy roofless topsiders who are always in such a rush and so perishable. Why, they waste magical energy on spells that, whilst seeming powerful, flicker away in an instant whilst dwarfs invest their magical energies into things that last. Items, buildings and the like.

These crazy longshanks never seem to look where they're going, always tripping over stuff that they could see, were they somewhat closer to the ground, or bumping into sturdy dwarven folk who can remind them that they ought to know better.

And they keep being obsessed with this whole sky thing! But water falls from the sky and if they don't have a roof to keep it all off the earth could fill up between the walls (it must have walls around the edges, right? What sort of crazy topsider builds a surface without walls?) and drown them all!

Oh the fun you can have playing a character who comes from a different culture with very different perspectives. And then, of course, there's taboos (but we don't talk about them, 'specialy not in front of foreigners). :lol:

my dwarf makes the typical drill sargent look like a pansy

Think Windsor Davies from It Ain't Half Hot Mum and then some .

 

[Bon-Al Ironforge]

And then, of course, there's taboos (but we don't talk about them, 'specialy not in front of foreigners). :lol:

No, we only talk about those in the hidden Forges of Bor at the Tower of the Sun (www.towerofthesun.com)

So you can come and talk anytime you want Balgin, the door is open my fine bearded friend.

:wink:

Al

 

[Balgin Stondraeg]

And then, of course, there's taboos (but we don't talk about them, 'specialy not in front of foreigners). :lol:

No, we only talk about those in the hidden Forges of Bor at the Tower of the Sun (www.towerofthesun.com)

So you can come and talk anytime you want Balgin, the door is open my fine bearded friend.

:wink:

Al

Yeah, there's just a technical problem in that the email address I can access from this computer has an evil firewall that doesn't let through automated emails (like account registration activation emails and stuff like that). So for registering at places or online trading I use another email address that I cannot access from this computer (it's on a shared computer that I don't get to use much) so it might take me a while to register at TotS.

 

[Bon-Al Ironforge]

And then, of course, there's taboos (but we don't talk about them, 'specialy not in front of foreigners). :lol:

No, we only talk about those in the hidden Forges of Bor at the Tower of the Sun (www.towerofthesun.com)

So you can come and talk anytime you want Balgin, the door is open my fine bearded friend.

:wink:

Al

Yeah, there's just a technical problem in that the email address I can access from this computer has an evil firewall that doesn't let through automated emails (like account registration activation emails and stuff like that). So for registering at places or online trading I use another email address that I cannot access from this computer (it's on a shared computer that I don't get to use much) so it might take me a while to register at TotS.

I know how much a pain that can be, I can only use the computer here at work as well, which has its limits on what I can and cannot do, but luckily enough I can access hotmail which is the account I use for stuff like this.

About TotS, no rush, but if you do make it down, remember that their is a chair at the Bullseye tavern and a cold mug of Bor Brew with your name on it!

Al

 

[Zipp Dementia]

If I remember, you don't actually have to have access to an email account to get on, do you? I don't remember it sending me a password or anything. Am I wrong? However, if you want, I can sign people up using various yahoo accounts. I'd give you the password, get you in, and then you just have to change your password.

If this appeals to you, email me at zippdementia@comcast.net

 

[toothill man]

come over to the forge if possible Ive got my medal so I am buying :shock: but for dwarfs only and for a limited period only :wink: :lol:

 

[Balgin Stondraeg]

If I remember, you don't actually have to have access to an email account to get on, do you? I don't remember it sending me a password or anything. Am I wrong? However, if you want, I can sign people up using various yahoo accounts. I'd give you the password, get you in, and then you just have to change your password.

If this appeals to you, email me at zippdementia@comcast.net

It's the yahoo account that won't recieve automated emails (so I never got the MSN registration/activation email so I cannot activate the account so it's permaently broken - which is fine by me as I wouldn't use it much anyway and it's all my sister's fault for trying to install it on my computer behind my back wityhout telling me so.... but that's not the point. It's the principle of the thing that matters).