I don't get the White Star Fighter
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Slightly Norse John
Mongoose
In practise, sooner or later the ISA are going to realise that they've given away an opportunity to score cheap kills to the rest of the universe. What are they going to do then? Stretch it and fatten it into a proper ship (the mythical but eagerly awaited Blue Star?)
Recapitulate the Sky Serpent/ Star Snake split, (or for that matter F-15/F-16) and come up with not so much a light fighter as a 'lean fighter', affordable enough to prevent the enemy achieving total numerical superiority, at least? (Who said the Drazi were daft?)
Rent-a-Nial? Or just throw carriers at the problem until it goes away?
Recapitulate the Sky Serpent/ Star Snake split, (or for that matter F-15/F-16) and come up with not so much a light fighter as a 'lean fighter', affordable enough to prevent the enemy achieving total numerical superiority, at least? (Who said the Drazi were daft?)
Rent-a-Nial? Or just throw carriers at the problem until it goes away?
Slightly Norse John
Mongoose
I'm not convinced it's overpriced for what it's capable of doing- it is a superb antiship fighter. I am convinced that it's price tag means it'll never get a chance to do it, because it'll be intercepted and shot down by superior numbers of enemy fighters.
That much is obvious, right? What then?
What do the ISA do when it becomes obvious that they don't have a white star as much as a white elephant on their hands? Persevere, and lose a lot of them?
Political solutions, like looking for lots of Narn allies with handy E- mines?
Operational solutions, like deploying them only in sufficient numbers to overwhelm opposition, or at least sufficient to force the enemy to concentrate on stopping them which is an achievement in itself?
Technical solutions; the Drazi, see above, have a heavy antiship fighter, rather good at it but hopeless in fighter-to-fighter, and a fast light interceptor to clear enemy interceptors and give it it's chance. One case where the ISA have something to learn from the purple and green crew.
So, basically, I was taking it as accepted that it has a problem. Given that it's not going to go away, how do you go about getting tactical value out of it?
That much is obvious, right? What then?
What do the ISA do when it becomes obvious that they don't have a white star as much as a white elephant on their hands? Persevere, and lose a lot of them?
Political solutions, like looking for lots of Narn allies with handy E- mines?
Operational solutions, like deploying them only in sufficient numbers to overwhelm opposition, or at least sufficient to force the enemy to concentrate on stopping them which is an achievement in itself?
Technical solutions; the Drazi, see above, have a heavy antiship fighter, rather good at it but hopeless in fighter-to-fighter, and a fast light interceptor to clear enemy interceptors and give it it's chance. One case where the ISA have something to learn from the purple and green crew.
So, basically, I was taking it as accepted that it has a problem. Given that it's not going to go away, how do you go about getting tactical value out of it?
Oh alright if you insist 
+4 (+3 dogfight +1 CQ) vs +7 (+2 dogfight with 5 support) has a 0.15% chance of winning. Thats about 1 in 660.
Assuming there is a WS Carrier around (who would be stupid enough to buy a WS Fighter without!): +5 (+3 dogfight +1 CQ +1 Fleet Carrier) vs +7. A 1.5% chance of winning, about 1 in 66.
+4 (+3 dogfight +1 CQ) vs +7 (+2 dogfight with 5 support) has a 0.15% chance of winning. Thats about 1 in 660.
Assuming there is a WS Carrier around (who would be stupid enough to buy a WS Fighter without!): +5 (+3 dogfight +1 CQ +1 Fleet Carrier) vs +7. A 1.5% chance of winning, about 1 in 66.
Slightly Norse John said:
Well. Thing is what works in fluff might not work in game and vice versa
The whole priority thingie is just artificial constraints to ensure reasonably balanced games afterall. White star fighters are good fighters 1 to 1 right? ISA will likely deploy them in sufficient quantities to ensure they don't get swamped or alongside swarm of nials(or even starfuries) which clear the path for white star fighters to engage capital ships.Now wether they should be 1 for skirmish for game balance is right choise...
Well I think I rather just take white star carrier and get carrier+8 of small buggers with it.
Lazy_bum_student
Mongoose
I dont mind too much their cost, although its a bit expensive you do get an anti fighter and anti ship fighter rolled into one. What i dont like is dodge 4+ on it. With a score like that with its high VP value I know i would be targeting with with my 2ndary ships and maybe some of my primary ones, just so they dont hurt me and for the free VP's.
And i really really hope shakey doesnt read this and get the idea of shooting them out of the sky at range.
And i really really hope shakey doesnt read this and get the idea of shooting them out of the sky at range.
How do fighters from ships go VP wise now? If its the one per flight I read earlier then sure I'll use WS-F as they are more effective and give away the same.
The whitestar vs 'fury/t-bolt arguement you make is terribly flawed Burger in that you assume the whitestar lost initiative and was not using another fighter in support. Neither of these is ever going to be on the field alone, whitestar f or the t-bolts.
The 4+ dodge is pretty weak for a fighter given they die to a 'hit' rather than a damage point, but if you have a whitestar carrier on the table you also will get them back half the time. I view them more as scary after the initial pass. Similar to the Drazi Sky Serpent which you really should not launch until you are behind the enemy.
Actually think they were never intended to be bought solo, much like the Nial, they come as part of ships compliments.
Ripple
The whitestar vs 'fury/t-bolt arguement you make is terribly flawed Burger in that you assume the whitestar lost initiative and was not using another fighter in support. Neither of these is ever going to be on the field alone, whitestar f or the t-bolts.
The 4+ dodge is pretty weak for a fighter given they die to a 'hit' rather than a damage point, but if you have a whitestar carrier on the table you also will get them back half the time. I view them more as scary after the initial pass. Similar to the Drazi Sky Serpent which you really should not launch until you are behind the enemy.
Actually think they were never intended to be bought solo, much like the Nial, they come as part of ships compliments.
Ripple
Well, not everything is linear in benefits or just based on a hypothetical dogfight. If you take 1 extra point of fighters and use them to engage multiple points of enemy fighters, then the White Star Fighter attacks and destroys a Raid PL ship, you've come out substantially ahead.
Not saying that would happen much, but the 'greater than the sum of its parts' concept can definately apply to multi ship/wing comparisons.
Not saying that would happen much, but the 'greater than the sum of its parts' concept can definately apply to multi ship/wing comparisons.
We're comparing WS fighter to other fighters here.
I've shown that while on a 1 vs 1 basis they are better, on a FAP basis they are very poor.
For that 1 skirmish point that I spend on a WS fighter, I could've taken 6 T'bolts which could engage the enemy in dogfights and then kill the Raid ship... without any extra support!
I've shown that while on a 1 vs 1 basis they are better, on a FAP basis they are very poor.
For that 1 skirmish point that I spend on a WS fighter, I could've taken 6 T'bolts which could engage the enemy in dogfights and then kill the Raid ship... without any extra support!
