Hyborias Fallen
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toothill man
Mongoose
details please its the one book I havent got yet how does the temptress class look 8)
Raven Blackwell
Mongoose
toothill man said:
Yes, how does it look? :twisted:
Yogah of Yag
Mongoose
So, is Temptress going to be the new PC class, or will it be reserved exclusively for NPC's? I'm anxious to get Fallen, and asked FRP Games about the release date, that is, the date they get it in. They said it should be in early December, but wouldn't elaborate. Hopefully in the next week...
The temptress has many social abilities, lots of class skills and skill points, a few sneak attack dice, and is weak in traditional combat. An effort seems to have been made to give more variant rules on average to the temptress multiclass options than other multiclass options.
However, one of the abilities of the temptress class struck me as very troublesome (as did some of the multiclass abilities to a lesser degree). Art of Distraction is an ability gained at 5th level that renders an opponent flat-footed if the temptress beats him in an opposed Bluff vs. Sense Motive check. The temptress should win this check almost all the time, especially since she has another class ability available at 4th level that allows her to add her temptress level to Bluff checks.
Art of Distraction can be used as a free action, and although most GM's probably wouldn't allow it to be used more than once each round on the same opponent, it doesn't say anything about not being able to use it on other opponents in the same round. There is no range stated in the ability, nor does it say what kind of opponents are affected by it, which suggests all kinds of opponents.
Almost automatically making an opponent flat-footed every round means that the temptress (and her allies) can use full Power Attack and Sneak Attack with all her attacks, unless the opponent has Uncanny Dodge or Reflexive Parry. And she may be able to use it on other combatants in the same round as well. Lastly, since there is no reason not to use it, this will result in opposed checks every round of every combat, which will slow down combat.
Raven: I suspect you might be interested in the role of this class as well as the mechanics, so if you tell me what in particular you're wondering about, it would be easier to give you my impression.
Yogah: I haven't seen anything yet in the book suggesting it's for NPC's only.
However, one of the abilities of the temptress class struck me as very troublesome (as did some of the multiclass abilities to a lesser degree). Art of Distraction is an ability gained at 5th level that renders an opponent flat-footed if the temptress beats him in an opposed Bluff vs. Sense Motive check. The temptress should win this check almost all the time, especially since she has another class ability available at 4th level that allows her to add her temptress level to Bluff checks.
Art of Distraction can be used as a free action, and although most GM's probably wouldn't allow it to be used more than once each round on the same opponent, it doesn't say anything about not being able to use it on other opponents in the same round. There is no range stated in the ability, nor does it say what kind of opponents are affected by it, which suggests all kinds of opponents.
Almost automatically making an opponent flat-footed every round means that the temptress (and her allies) can use full Power Attack and Sneak Attack with all her attacks, unless the opponent has Uncanny Dodge or Reflexive Parry. And she may be able to use it on other combatants in the same round as well. Lastly, since there is no reason not to use it, this will result in opposed checks every round of every combat, which will slow down combat.
Raven: I suspect you might be interested in the role of this class as well as the mechanics, so if you tell me what in particular you're wondering about, it would be easier to give you my impression.
Yogah: I haven't seen anything yet in the book suggesting it's for NPC's only.
VincentDarlage
Mongoose
Turim said:
That wasn't the intent. Errata: Art of Distraction causes an attack of opportunity, which is resolved before the check, and it can't be used on an opponent more than once per combat. If used on someone already engaged in melee, the GM decides if the combatant notices or not. It cannot be used on someone who is actively in melee with the temptress.
It was meant to be used more in line with the pretty lady who distracts the guards so her companions get the jump on the guards (much like in Star Trek V, when Uhura dances on the dune and distracts the guards so Kirk and company surprise them). If it is used for other reasons, the GM can make a ruling as to whether it works or not.
VincentDarlage
Mongoose
Yogah of Yag said:
PC or NPC.
Personally, I think Seek the Broken Vow and Inviolate Oath are interesting because they feel "new". Whirlpool and Waterspout have elaborate rules sections, and they are cool as well. However, the spells in Hyboria's Fallen doesn't have the huge flavour sections that some of the Hyboria's Finest spells do.
In addition to the culture and multiclass sections this book contains:
- The temptress class
- A section about the roles of fallen characters
- Elaborate new uses for skills
- 4 thief special abilities
- Many "natural" poisons, mostly cheap and slow-acting
- Information about fencing, including prices
- Expanded rules for surprise
- 3 alchemical items
- 15 combat manoeuvres
- 7 spells
- Many feats
In addition to the culture and multiclass sections this book contains:
- The temptress class
- A section about the roles of fallen characters
- Elaborate new uses for skills
- 4 thief special abilities
- Many "natural" poisons, mostly cheap and slow-acting
- Information about fencing, including prices
- Expanded rules for surprise
- 3 alchemical items
- 15 combat manoeuvres
- 7 spells
- Many feats
VincentDarlage
Mongoose
Females treat it as favoured; males do not.
Raven Blackwell
Mongoose
Turim said:
Well, I promised Vincent I wouldn't judge it until I read it for myself. So I'll reserve final judgement until it manages to arrive in my area. Just want to know- does it just continue the tradtional passive/aggressive stereotype of the 'loose-moraled' woman or does it actually break new ground in roleplaying? Does it seem like a necessary addition to the gaming experience or just something tacked on to tantilize the fan-boys? 8)
Thanks for the spoilers Turim! 
A pity the spells have smaller flavour sections, though there were some in Skelos which were very good despite this shortcoming. In any event, it is obvious not every sourcebook will have the same strong points.
The slow-acting poisons seem a good idea. In fact, this accounts for some realism (don't think every venom in the world kills in about two rounds).
15 combat maneuvers seem quite a bunch. If there are no recycled maneuvers (or few of them) it can be a good asset. I love combat maneuvers, though players and I use them sparingly, they can turn an otherwise "standard" combat in a thrilling fight.
As for the new class, hope it is something even Raven can like, because if it's badly handled it can be detrimental to the game. But given Vincent's RPG sourcebook design record, most probably it will be fine.
A pity the spells have smaller flavour sections, though there were some in Skelos which were very good despite this shortcoming. In any event, it is obvious not every sourcebook will have the same strong points.
The slow-acting poisons seem a good idea. In fact, this accounts for some realism (don't think every venom in the world kills in about two rounds).
15 combat maneuvers seem quite a bunch. If there are no recycled maneuvers (or few of them) it can be a good asset. I love combat maneuvers, though players and I use them sparingly, they can turn an otherwise "standard" combat in a thrilling fight.
As for the new class, hope it is something even Raven can like, because if it's badly handled it can be detrimental to the game. But given Vincent's RPG sourcebook design record, most probably it will be fine.
Voltumna: I guess you're talking about the Assassin's Death Attack? I think two of these thief abilities (Gift Giving and Read People) are based on noble social abilities from Messantia, but I don't own that book, so I can't be sure. The other two are called Sweep and Without a Trace, and I haven't seen either of these before.
Raven: Your first question is hard to answer for me, since I have very limited experience with roleplaying systems outside of AD&D and D&D.
I don't think it's a necessary addition to the rules, but IMO very few new rules truly are. I'm happy as long as the new rules do something better than the core ones. Although levels of thief and/or noble could make for a decent temptress, a dedicated class does it better. It will probably tantalize some fan-boys, but if it was Vincent's decision (as opposed to some corporate big-wig) to make this class I trust he made it because it's appropriate for Hyboria, and not to sell a few extra books.
Raven: Your first question is hard to answer for me, since I have very limited experience with roleplaying systems outside of AD&D and D&D.
I don't think it's a necessary addition to the rules, but IMO very few new rules truly are. I'm happy as long as the new rules do something better than the core ones. Although levels of thief and/or noble could make for a decent temptress, a dedicated class does it better. It will probably tantalize some fan-boys, but if it was Vincent's decision (as opposed to some corporate big-wig) to make this class I trust he made it because it's appropriate for Hyboria, and not to sell a few extra books.
Raven Blackwell
Mongoose
Turim said:
Most of this kind of writing is created by editorial mandate, not personal desire. This fact is what fueled my earlier anti-editor rants. I'd imagine that the editors thought they'd cash in on the strong popularity of 'erotic' fiction [read- porn] these days and stuck poor Vincent D with the idea to flesh out. Not being privy to Mongoose editoral staff meetings, I can't tell you with certainy though. As a freelance writer Vincent alas is dependant on keeping Mongoose happy to keep employed by them so he can't say no. This is why I have refrained from my usual rants until I read it myself. Yes I am a little irked by cover art that depicts females wearing nothing but garish S&M clothing, but I can look past it if the material is quality, which Vincent does produce.
On the other hand I have always wondered what the resulting opinion would be if male fantasy figures were dressed in a similiar style. 8)
Raven Blackwell
Mongoose
Ah you again. Charmless and tactless as always.
What Mongoose wants to focus on about the Conan world though is up to it. The endless worlds, new vistas and adventures- that's the stuff I like. Soft core porn can be had without tacking on Conan material though- just visit any tatty 'bookstore' near you.
Ah, there's that lovely friendly tone. Flame bait elsewhere jackboot.
No I was thinking something a little less wholesome- chains, black leather and piercings perhaps. Of course these days that'd likely go over well. Mongoose take note! Make Conan hipper for the young crowd. 8)
