Huge Hangars trait wording

[Chernobyl]

a question has arisen locally that asks how many ships are carried in a Huge Hangar aboard a Drakh carrier or mothership.

The phrase in question in the rules states:

"Ships with Huge Hangars carry a number of Heavy Raiders, Light Raiders and Scouts equal to that shown in the trait."

Which is correct regarding a Drakh Carrier, having Huge Hangars 4?

The player may choose to equip the Carrier with ________?

1) any mix of 4 Light Raiders, Heavy Raiders, or Scouts (example: 1 Light Raider, 2 Scouts, and 1 Heavy Raider)

2) any 4 Light Raiders, Heavy Raiders, or Scouts, provided they are all the same type (example: 4 Light Raiders)

3) 4 Light Raiders, 4 Heavy Raiders, and 4 Scouts (for a total of 12 carried ships)

4) some other loadout (your answer here)

Chernobyl

 

[Triggy]

You can take a mix of ships with the total number of ships in the Huge Hangers being 4 (in this case).

 

[B_Steele]

1) any mix of 4 Light Raiders, Heavy Raiders, or Scouts (example: 1 Light Raider, 2 Scouts, and 1 Heavy Raider)

This is the correct answer.

Bry

 

[Fin-man]

That's not what the rules say...

Drakh book, P. 12: (Emphasis mine)

"Ships with Huge Hangars carry a number of Heavy Raiders, Light Raiders and Scouts equal to that shown in the trait. The ship starts the game with a mixture of Light Raiders, Heavy Raiders, and Scouts, each with the ship's Crew Quality score - these cost no fleet allocation points…"

The conjunction here ("and", not "or") would make the correct answer for a carrier:
four Light Raiders, four Heavy Raiders, and four Scouts for a total of twelve ships inside the carrier.

I hope that helps.

Fin-man

1) any mix of 4 Light Raiders, Heavy Raiders, or Scouts (example: 1 Light Raider, 2 Scouts, and 1 Heavy Raider)

This is the correct answer.

Bry

 

[E Nicely]

The Huge Hangars rating is 4. That's how many smaller ships it carries. Any combination of Light Raiders, Heavy Raiders, or Scouts.

 

[Mmurphy]

That's all fine and dandy.

The ship can carry 4 ships. Unfortunately, I don't come to the web site very often and I use the rules from the book as they are written. As the rules in the book state, a ship with hangars 4 carries 12 ships. This was not corrected in the recent FAQ.

Now comes the biggest problem, several people get together to play a simple game and spend 30 minutes to 2 hours arguing about the rules instead of playing the game.

 

[Triggy]

That's not what the rules say...

Drakh book, P. 12: (Emphasis mine)

"Ships with Huge Hangars carry a number of Heavy Raiders, Light Raiders and Scouts equal to that shown in the trait. The ship starts the game with a mixture of Light Raiders, Heavy Raiders, and Scouts, each with the ship's Crew Quality score - these cost no fleet allocation points…"

The conjunction here ("and", not "or") would make the correct answer for a carrier:
four Light Raiders, four Heavy Raiders, and four Scouts for a total of twelve ships inside the carrier.

I hope that helps.

Fin-man

1) any mix of 4 Light Raiders, Heavy Raiders, or Scouts (example: 1 Light Raider, 2 Scouts, and 1 Heavy Raider)

This is the correct answer.

Bry

Actually in terms of pure grammar, the and simply gives you two options for meaning depending on the subject of the sentence (it could mean that the "number" is equal to the total of Heavy/Light Raiders and Scouts combined). However, or makes the rule clearer and prevents confusion.

 

[Burger]

No, "or" would imply that you can't take a mixture of types. The "and" can have multiple interpretations, but now the voice of the Mongoose has spoken, there can be no confusion

 

[Chernobyl]

I hope the text of 2e can be done with less ambiguity.

Chern

 

[Greg Smith]

Ambiguity is something I keep annoying Matt with.

 

[Burger]

Ambiguity is something I keep annoying Matt with.

Good work... keep it up and get it all removed!

 

[Triggy]

Ambiguity is something I keep annoying Matt with.

Good work... keep it up and get it all removed!

No no, you misunderstand, Greg keeps annoying Matt with his own ambiguity

 

[Fin-man]

Really? Appearantly, there still is confusion, as I don't get the same interpretation from the rules as Triggy. Also, "The voice of Mongoose" has not spoken, becuase:
A) Matt hasn't jumped in here and given an answer.
B) That answer isn't anywhere in a publication. (FAQ)

I'm not trying to be obstinate, but this is the exact kind of thing that I was discussing in my '[ACTA] When do we get an Armageddon FAQ?' http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=23999

I'll say it again, because it's important. A person who is playing and who read the SFoS [or Drakh, or whatever] rulebook shouldn't have to hear an answer of, "Well, someone said it wasn't really that way on an Internet forum. No, really. I read it."

how hard is it to make notes to put that in a FAQ in PDF format that is updated on a semi-regular basis? I guess I'll have to take on the mantle of 'FAQ-man' with Matt, and pester him about maintaining / updating a FAQ on a regular basis until (or even possibly after) 2e comes out. Hell, I'd even volunteer to complile a list of the questions and his answers, and then ship it to Matt quarterly for updating on the FAQ.

Fin-man (or is that FAQ-man? Don't tell anyone my secret identity) :wink:

No, "or" would imply that you can't take a mixture of types. The "and" can have multiple interpretations, but now the voice of the Mongoose has spoken, there can be no confusion

 

[nezeray]

I believe the "Mongoose" that was referred to as having spoken was Bry (aka Bryan Steele, aka Mongoose Steele).

I know he's worked a ton on ACTA and may have even written the infamous statement.

As far as the Huge Hangers thingy, I'll have to see what my Posideon's stats are again, maybe I can squeeze a few more starfuries into my fleet. :twisted:

Nezeray / James