Gangs of mega city one. (half rant, half attempt at help)

[Rob_A]

Matt, Alex, (better mention Ted) Ted and crew.

I am beginning to worry, you have left quite a few loose ends here and there, I mean sure, you can play a sensible game with the rules available, but now with the loss of DOTS I don't see the point. You have a HUGE liscence opportunity here, and lots of opportunities for characters, missions, block war, RPG/GoMC1 games.

Really, just try and brainstorm everything possible that you could do. Think of the opportunities.
We have lost a lot of friends on this forum because of this, DoTS brought in a few, but after about 6 months they left, especially Arabin and the Canadian guy with the stunning scenery. I love this game, but I cant be interested in what seems to me, a half finished game, if that. I was really happy to see some of the more interesting gangs being formed, especially apes and undercity, but theres still other countries, characters and lots of situations to put in. Please consider this, I would love to help in any way shape or form that I could, do a few good men for gangs even. I would really suggest trying to track down Arabin and the Canadian guy whos name escapes me.
I bet anyone would LOVE this opportunity, I sure as hell would. The amount of stuff possible is mind blowing, yeah its not popular now, but revolutionise it, dont change the rules but make the box more attractive, make the plastics more attractive, how many times do we have to say Plastic Judges? We made a point that Judge vs Judge games were possible, I would love scenarios with the insane Judge Caligula, that would be immense.

This isnt me being cheeky and trying to control you but heres some ideas I've had for a box set (if it was my choice):

1. Plastic gangers and Judges pre-paints.
2. Fold out 'board game' board about 24" square.
3. Rulebook similar to the necromunda omnibus they brought out, but make it include DoTS and the GoMC1 rules, possibly new rules.
4. Bring out some new rules every so often in S&P, then bring out an omnibus every year.
5. Blue dice with a judges badge replacing the '6'. and all the other required equipment.
6.Buildings, like the 'munda ones, think of the bulkheads, but shopfronts. So that they can be put away easily.
7. Make the box SST box sized, it catches eyes easier, of customers AND stockists.
8. Get GF9 to laser cut the templates. I am tempted to do this with my schools one.
9. Really support those who want to demo it.

I really hope you have read this, I would love to hear some comments back from you. I hate to be annoying, but I also hate to see a brilliant game slowly dissipate into thin air.
please please please reply. If not, at least PM. I would apprieciate it so much.

Thanks muchly,
Rob.

P.S: if that sounded bitchy, it wasnt meant to, thats just me making a point.

 

[Anvil]

Here here.

Not that I have played the game, but I would like to see more 2000AD related games.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Hi there,

No disagreements, but the time is not quite right yet.

Don't worry, big things are coming for Judge Dredd. . .

 

[Shadow Queen]

Hi there,

No disagreements, but the time is not quite right yet.

Don't worry, big things are coming for Judge Dredd. . .

Matt is evolving into a Vorlon

 

[Mr Evil]

judge dredd evo maybe ?

 

[mthomason]

judge dredd evo maybe ?

That would be so damn cool. Would need to sell large numbers of miniatures to make it worthwhile, though, so something like the rumoured Block War game with masses and masses of miniatures on the table.

 

[Rob_A]

I like the idea, but I also like the skirmish game, or scenario option. Sort of like GW's LOTR, but with MUCH better rules and setting.
What I mean is the ability to play 'story' scenarios, along with campaign settings like GoMC1 and 'block war'. All in one rulebook.
Difficult? Yes, revolutionary? Incredibly.

Cheers Matt, can't wait to hear.

 

[mthomason]

Sometimes it takes a game that'll sell lots of figures to get the minis into production, so a "Block War" game would potentially provide GoMC1 players with lots of extra choices as well.

For example, plastic Judges probably aren't economical for GoMC1 because not many players would buy more than one box. However, if a Block War game was launched with plastic figures, it could see people buying multiple boxes, and GoMC1 players would be able to buy the plastic Judges too

I guess it depends what's planned for Judge Dredd in the future, but Matthew's words indicate that *something* is, and whatever it is I'd hope there would be a way that GoMC1 players could benefit from it.

 

[Rob_A]

precisely. But I do think there are opportunities for more than one box of judges. For example Rogue judges.

 

[mthomason]

Yup - again, so much easier to do when you can sell boxes of em rather than just a couple per customer. I have a theory of miniatures gaming that any game that only uses a handful of figures on each side really needs a mass-combat game using the same figures in order to generate enough sales to support the smaller game over the longer term. Rules support is relatively easy to keep going, but producing new miniatures for something that isn't going to sell in huge numbers is trickier - GW's Specialist Games division kinda proves the point there.

Thats also the reason I'd like to see smaller-scale (in numbers, not size) games written utilising the BF Evo/SST/AoC miniatures once they're out - those smaller games will be so much easier to keep going because the "parent game" for each will be generating the miniatures range.

 

[Eisho]

A focus on the Apocalypse War would allow for multiple figs of judges to be made and used. There is also the Holocaust Squad, which would be very cool.

The thing is though is that as things stand now, there are bigger and more profitable projects for Mongoose to concentrate resources on.

Cheers,

Eisho

 

[Mr Evil]

you could have varouse gng boxes that mix and match and in each box set you could get a judge, so as your gang collection grows so doese your judge collection.

and if you wish for just judges there could be just a box of judges as well,

 

[Rob_A]

someone said lawmasters that the judges actually fit on.

 

[Shadow Queen]

they dont you need to fiddle a bit

 

[Rob_A]

Im not saying they dont. Im just putting the point across

 

[Rob_A]

some nice articles in S&P this month. Maybe I will revive my campaign at our local club.

 

[xeoran]

Yup - again, so much easier to do when you can sell boxes of em rather than just a couple per customer. I have a theory of miniatures gaming that any game that only uses a handful of figures on each side really needs a mass-combat game using the same figures in order to generate enough sales to support the smaller game over the longer term. Rules support is relatively easy to keep going, but producing new miniatures for something that isn't going to sell in huge numbers is trickier - GW's Specialist Games division kinda proves the point there.

Not quite. Just look at many of the ranges with no game at all- like Historicals. Or manufacturers like Corvus Belli (makers of Warcrow, Corvus Belli and Infinity). Or Heresy. Or Hasslefree. Or Dark Age. Or Rezolution. Or Newbold. Or Crunch Waffle. Or...

Specialist games are weak 'cos GW know they are less profitable than the core games, not because thye dont actually make profits.

That said a Block War game (skirmish-platoon size) with a few vehicles would be great. Mind you I'd like more 2000AD in general; Rogue Trooper (pre-Traitor General), Slaine (could be used as a cover for general Irish-esque mythological warband skirmish in the same world as Slaine) etc.

 

[mthomason]

Not quite. Just look at many of the ranges with no game at all- like Historicals. Or manufacturers like Corvus Belli (makers of Warcrow, Corvus Belli and Infinity). Or Heresy. Or Hasslefree. Or Dark Age. Or Rezolution. Or Newbold. Or Crunch Waffle. Or...

Historicals are a good example - the games already exist that pull people to buy these things en masse. Effectively the reasoning for customers to buy them is already done. I can't imagine many historical gamers go and buy a single blister of Hoplites, they'll go buy a dozen blisters. Most GoMC1 gamers don't buy an army of fatties, they buy one. There's just no use for more than one or maybe two of them, so sales look pretty pathetic all the way down the distribution chain. It's not just making it profitable to Mongoose thats the problem, it's giving distributors and stores a reason to give them shelf space.

As for the others - a lof of them just don't sell in enough volume to make it worth the shelf space. I have a case full of Rezolution - maybe two boxed sets sold in the last six months. Six more months from now it'll likely be broken up on eBay and deleted from the stock list so I can use that space for something else (especially as space is at a premium already with an impending mass of BF Evo stock to fit in next year)

A miniature for a new GoMC1 specialist, we ordered in two to four blisters when they were launched (and probably still had one or two left after a year). Same with a boxed set for a new gang. A new ACTA ship blister (in the same approximate price bracket) and we order at least a dozen, and end up restocking that ship at least once a month, same for anything else where a customer buys multiples of that blister.

To use the GW model, all those character models are nice, and tend to be "subsidised" (in terms of shelf space rather than cost) by the squad boxes. After all, customers that come in for an Eldar Battleforce may well want a Farseer blister to go with it, so stores end up stocking them to help sell the Battleforces, not because the Farseer is going to make them amazing amount of cash. There's no "big sellers" for the likes of GoMC1, nothing that a customer is going to keep coming back for to add more of to their collection. With the wargaming market being very much a niche, it tends to rely on the same customers coming back again and again.

So as a retailer, I ask - why should I bother stocking a new GoMC1 specialist when that space can be better used to keep a larger stock of ACTA? Even if a boxed set of plastic Judges existed, the game doesn't really lean towards fielding armies of them, so why should I get that one in? And if the stores don't want to buy them in volume, the distributors get a similar feeling further up the supply chain - why order a crate load of that new specialist figure if most of them will still be on their own shelves in six months time. Then it reaches Mongoose - what's the point making that new specialist mini if the distributors are only ordering half a dozen crates between them, when the production time could be used to make those piles of ACTA Marathons that people are clamouring for?

Now, if Mongoose pushed the idea of people needing 50 plastic Judges in a Block War game I'd make room on the shelves for a dozen boxes tomorrow. If there were some specialist minis needed for the game, they'd then get space on the shelves as they'd be needed to help sell the bigger selling plastic boxed sets. Meanwhile, the GoMC1 players get their new specialist minis because there's a huge push to get them done for the Block War game.

Specialist games are weak 'cos GW know they are less profitable than the core games, not because thye dont actually make profits.

Gotta agree with this one. But, when you have limited resources it unfortunately does make sense to concentrate on what makes the most profit. Would probably have worked better if SG had been split off as a de facto company rather than the way it was organised internally with "borrowed" resources that could be deallocated when something else came up. Apparently writing a monthly promotional column about the core games is now perceived as a better use of Jervis' time than writing rules for the specialist games

I'm still waiting for the rerelease of Chaos for Epic...

 

[xeoran]

Know what you mean man- why take Jervis from us? I need my Necromunda/Battlefleet Gothic fix. GW really did shaft the Specialist Games which annoys me as they are the best games they do. Poor you man, almost no chance of Chaos being released in the next year.

Hmm...well, on the Historical front I personally buy Historicals 'cos I like the minis/period and do my own rules. But I'm probably not the norm.

Hmm, I wont argue with your points as I'm no stockist. :wink:

However I would still say that true skirmish games can be very successful; take Infinity, (Rez is failing due to some hideous minis; same with Urban War). A well sculpted, decent set of skirmish minis do sell though you will want less sets than for a true battle game.

 

[mthomason]

Know what you mean man- why take Jervis from us? I need my Necromunda/Battlefleet Gothic fix. GW really did shaft the Specialist Games which annoys me as they are the best games they do. Poor you man, almost no chance of Chaos being released in the next year.

Well at least I still have a pile of the old plastic sprues to keep me going Must have picked up about 100 across the ranges when they dropped Epic 40K... Infantry-wise I've almost finished off the Blood Angels (all ten companies) and am doing a nice assortment of bits and pieces from other chapters. Two Eldar Craftworlds, all four Chaos factions (okay I'm not going to manage a complete Legion there but I can dream!), and pretty much everything else (yes, even Squats!). I can always keep on with the infantry while I wait for war engines to show or grab odds and ends off eBay

Hmm...well, on the Historical front I personally buy Historicals 'cos I like the minis/period and do my own rules. But I'm probably not the norm.

I've always viewed the historicals crowd as doing far more rules tinkering than everyone else. Mostly because of the interest in the source material and wanting to get everything "just right". It's a lot easier to argue that something isn't right when you've got the historical proof, than to say that an ACTA ship ought to have more firepower than it has in the stats - especially when fiction can and often does contradict itself in canon, leaving it far more open to individual interpretation.

Hmm, I wont argue with your points as I'm no stockist. :wink:

I really wouldn't mind being proved wrong If I believed I was 100% correct I wouldn't feel the need to post on a forum and see what everyone else thought

However I would still say that true skirmish games can be very successful; take Infinity, (Rez is failing due to some hideous minis; same with Urban War). A well sculpted, decent set of skirmish minis do sell though you will want less sets than for a true battle game.

It'll sell. The problem is something aimed at selling ten boxes of the same thing per player sells better Again it comes down to the shelf space argument - I frequently run out of Battleforces because there's not the space to keep a decent amount in stock, so the temptation is there to pull the skirmish stuff and plop down a case of Battleforces in their place...

CMGs are even "worse" for this, as you end up with a huge amount of a single product being a lot easier to manage than 50 different blisters, making them even more attractive to retailers and distributors because they know they're not going to get stuck with a few unsellable items out of the range, because there's no "range" to speak of.

It's sad really. I grew up being able to pop into tiny little stores that had their shelves crammed full of various RPGs and wargames, with rotating racks of blister packs from a dozen different miniatures companies on the counter. Now I walk into the same stores and see a D&D miniatures display taking up an entire wall, while the counter is full of Pokemon trading cards.