Freds Furious Falcons - army list development

[Till]

Hello,
I'm playing with the thougt of beginning SST as tabletop. (This is all Galateas fault who can't stop telling me about. (-: ) So I made some thinking of what I could play and ended up with an Mobile Infantry CAP Trooper list. I have some experience with tabletop (Warhammer 40k and Fantasy) but not with the SST-tabletop, so I would be pleased if I could get some opinions about my army list thougts. So stop with boring explanations, here comes the List:

Freds Furious Falcons (Priority level 1)
1st Platoon(total 930 Pts.)
NCO (105 Pts.)
1st Squad (total 350 Pts.)
5 CAP Trooper (195)
2 Javelin (80)
1 Scythe Laser (75)
2nd Squad (total 350 Pts.)
5 CAP Trooper (195)
2 Javelin (80)
1 Scythe Laser (75)
1 Skyhook (125 Pts.)

2nd Platoon(total 930 Pts.)
NCO (105 Pts.)
1st Squad (total 350 Pts.)
5 CAP Trooper (195)
2 Javelin (80)
1 Scythe Laser (75)
2nd Squad (total 350 Pts.)
5 CAP Trooper (195)
2 Javelin (80)
1 Scythe Laser (75)
1 Skyhook (125 Pts.)

Total points 1860 (140 Pts. remaining)

tactics
The Idea is very simple. CAPs are in the middle of my deployment area and are shooting at all they can reach. Primary targets are all air defence troops like plasmabugs, hopper bugs, TAC UAVs and so on. The 4 scythe laser should be enough to cope with all the small soldiers may it be another LAMI or CAPs or Warrior bugs who want to come close. At least at the moment I'm very impressed by 4 36" stream weapons.
Should anyone come to close or I get surrounded by the enemy the Skythes do land, CAPs are entering and the next round all goes up in the air, far away from those nasty claws.
Against MI I think it would be best to go into cover and open fire with indirect Javelin rockets supported by the 4 twin fiftys of the 2 Skyhooks.

Points remaining and alternatives

So, there are 140 Points left to 2000. I really don't have a good idea of what to do with them. I could upgrade the Skyhooks in Vikings to make them tougher, but I'm not very convinced of this, because I would spend 140 points without any increase of firepower or tactical options.

One thought would be to reduce the armament of one Squad to 2 HEL Flamers what should give me enough points to include two TAC UAV, one for each NCO. But if I do this I would also want to give the Flamersquad WASP packs and then points are to few to include the 2 TAC UAVs.

 

[Cozmo]

Only Prob I see is lack of mobility, by the look of things you set up and bunker down. CAPs are Mobile Infintary try keep at least one squad mobile to react. Bugs will just tunnel pop up next to you and chomp on/flame you. Also did you use the rulebook or army book? CAPs are cheaper now so check out getting the army book if you haven't.

 

[Galatea]

According to the mobile infantry army book a sqaud of 5 CAPs costs 195p.

 

[Till]

@ mobility
Well I think Freds Furious Falcons are quite mobile. If the Enemy comes near I can jump away and use all weapons but the 4 Scythe lasers. This means there are 8 Javelins which can shoot down Tankers, Overseers, Plasmabugs and stuff like this. I think this is a quite impressive firepower. Small Bugs like Warriors or Blister or stuff like this gets also decimated by the quite mobile Skyhooks. (16D6+1 do hurt) And if things go really bad I am able to enter the Skyhooks and get out of reach of all those ground troops. Maybee I'm also able to enter the table in Skyhooks and deploy my whole two platoons just anywhere on the table. (Not if I was planning to do this, but it is a posibility.)
I may be wrong, because of my lack of experience (I never played an SST game just once), but if so please tell me why this is not mobile. But I think this army is very mobile.

But it is correct I have not very much weapons I can react with. Only 10 Moritas are able to do this. But if an tanker or a huge Warrior swarm leaves a tunnel entrance near my troopers then things are that worse that even 2 or 4 trench sweepers can't handle the situation. But my tactic is not to come in such an situation. I hope my jumpsuits are faster than those tunnel markers. So if he has an hughe amount of his troops underground I can eradicate his whole overground army and escape his tunneling Bugs. If I wanted I could also use the Scythe to blast those tunnelingmarkers, but I would use those 4 chances of rolling the 10 to kill the marker only if I have no better targets.

Well at this point, any idea of how to get rid of tunneling markers without a scythe laser?

@ point cost
I used the point cost of the army book, wich corresponds to the point cost on the cards. (25 for a trooper, 95 for the Seargent. 4 Trooper + 1 Searg -> 195 Pts.) If CAPs got cheaper than this I would be glad if you could inform me in which army book you read this. (Version, exact name, ISBN, link or something like this, so I can order it)

@ vulnerable command structure
A friend of mine said he thought my Squads needed an corporal so they can act if I lose the seargent (wich is quite a stupid rule by the way) and he thought that with just 2 NCOs in 2000 Pts. they would get to fast killed. Well, OK, the point cost for additional officers or Corporals I really don't have. I played with the thought of putting the NCOs in Exosuits for +40 Pts. The only Problem I have with this ist that then they can't enter the Skyhooks which would kill all those style the army has. Since the NCOs do have no mentionable weapons I just wanted to hide them behind other Squads or behind Terrain. And even if they get killed. Well my command range reduces to 3". But what ist the Problem with this, except of course there are some flamer or LZ weapons? What do you experienced players think of this vulnerable command structure.

@ army list alternatives
At the moment I'm tending to the TAC UAV variant:

(2 NCO without anything, 3x5 CAPs with 6 Javelin and 3 Scythe, 1x5 CAPs with 2 HEL flamer, 2 Skyhook and 2 TAC UAVs, 45 Pts. left for maybe fleet liason?)
Well but this would give the NCOs more importance and then they are too vulnerable. But I'm fascinated of those 4 flying Twin Fitys. (24D+1)

 

[Cozmo]

@ mobility
@ vulnerable command structure
A friend of mine said he thought my Squads needed an corporal so they can act if I lose the seargent (wich is quite a stupid rule by the way) and he thought that with just 2 NCOs in 2000 Pts. they would get to fast killed. Well, OK, the point cost for additional officers or Corporals I really don't have. I played with the thought of putting the NCOs in Exosuits for +40 Pts. The only Problem I have with this ist that then they can't enter the Skyhooks which would kill all those style the army has. Since the NCOs do have no mentionable weapons I just wanted to hide them behind other Squads or behind Terrain. And even if they get killed. Well my command range reduces to 3". But what ist the Problem with this, except of course there are some flamer or LZ weapons? What do you experienced players think of this vulnerable command structure.

I played it a few times and it makes an excellent rule you need to keep an eye one what your commanders are doing, if you're worried about it take an Lt. instead of an NCO to promote men if need be.
I haven't really read into the Reliants but they seem to slow MI down (I'd rather ready then jump and shoot) also while you ready you do nothing and then you shoot, with no bennifit other than the reliants, which are good but your slowing down. Any way your call let us know how it goes.

 

[cOwgummi]

what reliants are you talking about cozmo? as far as i kinow he doesn't want to take any reliants.

@till
3" command range sucks because it forces you to group your models tighter and can put models out of command that were in 6" to the sarge before the ncos were killed.

as i already told you, don't take TAC AUVs, buy a LT and if you can afford it get corporals.
imho that force is fragile enough without its command structure falling apart.
i mean it only takes 1 infiltrator and 3 hoppers to kill all your officers, and thats a pretty common choice.

 

[tneva82]

I hope my jumpsuits are faster than those tunnel markers.

They are. Which is why arachnids will tie your overground units with expendable units which are there to die and keep you from jumping away(or if you do then he can react and charge and kill bunch of warriors). Don't trust being able to jump away forever...

I just wanted to hide them behind other Squads or behind Terrain. And even if they get killed. Well my command range reduces to 3". But what ist the Problem with this,

Try facing LZ weapons while bunched up 3" weapon rightly placed will catch entire squad...And if you spread out initially to avoid that bunch of models are then out of command.

except of course there are some flamer or LZ weapons? What do you experienced players think of this vulnerable command structure.

a) by having corporals
b) having lietnaunt who is a) kept safe b) keeps promoting if need be. Last tournament most of the job my lietnaunt did was keep promoting trooppers once command structure was removed(and invariably you WILL suffer losses to command structure. Better plan for it).

But overall I think you are putting tad too much reliance on scythes. They are nice but they are ready weapons which means that a) you can't shoot them on jump b) can shoot only once per turn. But to each his own. I just prefer to keep on the move all the time. When I stop moving I have bugs swarming over me instantly.

 

[dyssnowman]

I believe that the scythe lasers are micro support platforms, not Reliants.

 

[Till]

The scythe lasers are the standard option for Power Suit Squads and as such micro support platforms. But I think they need a ready action before they can be fired. This would be done in the first round. After this they can be fired twice each round, if I use both actions for shooting of course.

And this was my tactic. I wanted to kill the masses with those scythe lasers, because I thougt that 8 LZ(Stream) 36" 1D10+3 P2 could do a lot of damage. (And there are still the 8 Javelins.) Even tankers go down in this fire like popcorn. If the bug player keeps me under pressure I don't have the time to shoot at the tunnel markers, but by the time the tunnel marker comes near, I can easily jump away, because there are less bugs remaining on the table. At this point the 4 scythes get nearly useless of course I merely have the 8 Javelins. But I think this combination of "stand and shoot" and "moving" could be quiet devastating. And remember there are 16D6+1 very moblie roadclearing twin.50 in the sky.

The drawback of those firepower of course is the weak command structure. I have to field the NCOs but I gladly wolud play one Lt and NCO. In my eyes the NCOs are just a point grave. What do I get from them? 1 morita for 105 Pts.? One Lt. can keep my squads working through promoting troopers, wich would be worth the points. But there are not the points for Corporals or Lts. The scythes alone take 250 Pts. I could upgrade one Skyhook into one Viking and put in an Lt. in Cougar Exosuit for this. But this would reduce my firepower to less than half and I'm not confident that my trooper survive much longer through this.

I will keep on thinking of how to get a Lt. without loosing my firepower, but at the moment I'm not very concerned.

 

[tneva82]

The scythe lasers are the standard option for Power Suit Squads and as such micro support platforms. But I think they need a ready action before they can be fired. This would be done in the first round. After this they can be fired twice each round, if I use both actions for shooting of course.

They need ready action to be set up AND they are ready weapon(look at the trait list weapon has). That means that first you have to ready(micro support weapon thingie) and then you need to ready each time before firing(the ready trait). If you move you have to ready to set up again before you can ready-shoot. This basicly means that your first turn you won't shoot one squat and every turn after that, if you don't move, you shoot once.

Which is why I generally don't add micro support platforms to my list. And definetly not to all squads.

, but by the time the tunnel marker comes near, I can easily jump away, because there are less bugs remaining on the table.

Even few warriors charge-reacting when you ready for jump can cause quite a havoc...

In my eyes the NCOs are just a point grave. What do I get from them? 1 morita for 105 Pts.?

Plus ability to lead squads and of course they are officers. 1 officer in army=just 1 officer to kill before your command radius goes havoc(another bad thing to concider: FLINCH! Troopper flinches and he could easily flinch OUT of command range...)

Just try few games. Command structure is(deliberatly) one of the most difficult things for MI player to watch out for...That's one of the bugs advantage btw. Practical immunity to such worries as command structure...

 

[cOwgummi]

Rebels have the same immunity if massing enough cicilians together :twisted:

and do't you start readied in some scenarios?

 

[Galatea]

Yes, if you have to lower PL your troops start READIED.
This means they count as if they had taken a ready action last turn - you may jump with your first action that way, but it doesn't help you to plant micro-support-platforms anyway.

And yes, they are indeed ready-weapons. Must have missed that.


@c0wgummi: Yes and they even ignore command range when doing so (like bugs swarms), although they need to stay within 1" of each other. But it's just not worth the points planting a plasma discharge into their midst.

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

Do micro support weapons not lose the ready trait if the firer and loader are still alive at the start of the action? i've not used them so I'm not 100% on the rules.

 

[dyssnowman]

Micro support plaforms change whatever weapon that is mounted on it to a Crew weapon. This means that with a gunner, the weapon can fire as a Squad weapon (can fire for both actions and can be used for reactions). If there is not a gunner, the weapon fires as a Pack weapon (once per turn and cannot fire for reactions). Unfortunately it has no effect whatsoever on the Ready trait.

 

[Till]

Well thats not so much the problem. It would have been to nice to shoot a scythe laser 2 times a round. I should have known that this is to good to be true. But in first round I can build up the micro support platform and ready. In folowwing rounds I can take shot and ready action. With the Javelin, as Pack weapons, I can only shoot once per round too. And in addition, at the end of the turn my troops are always readied, so they can Jump away If things go up worse.

Well in the first round I can't shoot with the Javelins what is sad, because of their 60" reach. I think this should be playtested. Time to prox some troops and enter the field.

Any Idea what to do with the last 140 Pts.? Should I take in the Ltn.? And how to equip him?

 

[Galatea]

Take Lt. an give him a Cougar Exo.
Lt. without Cougar is waste of points.

 

[cOwgummi]

if he wears an exo, he can't get into the skyhook.

well i think plasma munitions would be great for your army, as they are a way to delay an enemys advance on your position.

 

[Cozmo]

True Grit or Warning depending on how much you got too spare +1 Hit/Kill or +1 to ALL Saves, I believe that gives you a 5+ dodge.

cOwgummi, I run Pathfinders and have never used any platforms (I can't) and their all the same to me really.