Foam Ammunition

[Gavain]

Just discovered that the new CSC2023 has the option for Foam Ammunition. The description gives:

"A foam round, when fired from grenade launchers or heavier weapons, disperses a sticky foam which temporarily incapacitates a target. If the damage inflicted exceeds a person’s STR or a vehicle’s Hull, ignoring all armour, the target is stuck to the ground or a nearby wall."

However it doesn't give any indication of what damage to use. The summary table just says "special".
A standard frag grenade does 5D damage and a standard shotgun does 4D damage. Would you use that, which seems over powerful, or would you set some other damage rating?

 

[Arkathan]

My understanding is that you use the base "damage" when not contradicted by the listing in the ammunition.
The foam rounds don't do actual damage from what I see, but the damage roll determines how badly the target gets stuck.

 

[Geir]

My understanding is that you use the base "damage" when not contradicted by the listing in the ammunition.
The foam rounds don't do actual damage from what I see, but the damage roll determines how badly the target gets stuck.

Yes. Standard round damage. But the 4D for a shotgun round does mean that it will stick most people. The Very Difficult STR roll to extract might be tough for weaker (STR 5-) to accomplish without assistance from someone else (Task Chain, other person doing all the work, or the referee giving DMs for ingenuity, like using a rope and have multiple people pulling someone (or some vehicle) free).

I suppose I should have added another paragraph about dissipation over time and dispersion (water cannon, fire hose, rain downpour, hydrochloric acid), but it didn't occur to me at the time. Sorry.

 

[JustEastOfTheEdge]

I assume the shotgun rules could be applied (harder to dodge but armour works even better, less dmg all longer ranges ); that at least makes Foam attacks way less effective on anyone with even minor protection. Just a thought.

 

[Arkathan]

A shotgun's dodge comes from the spread of multiple balls. Foam is dispensed from a single canister that cracks and explosively expands upon impact. Foam ignores armor, but vehicles that are big/heavy/powerful enough to be well armored ignore foam.

 

[JustEastOfTheEdge]

That is one interpretation. Others are available.

 

[Geir]

I assume the shotgun rules could be applied (harder to dodge but armour works even better, less dmg all longer ranges ); that at least makes Foam attacks way less effective on anyone with even minor protection. Just a thought.

That was in the back of my head, but the rules don't really say that anymore - the less damage part, or at least I can't find it anymore, it just talks about armour being more effective past short range. Unless there's something in the Mercenary books. But giving it half damage and some Blast at long range and even less damage and more spread at extreme range would be a good adaptation. Depending on whether the foam explodes in flight or on impact (I kind of like the firehose effect - should have made a specific weapon like that... maybe a future JTAS idea. I should keep a notebook of those...)

 

[JustEastOfTheEdge]

Central Supply p. 148

SHOTGUN
Shotguns are smoothbore weapons that typically fire ammunition containing multiple small pellets. They aremost effective at short range. A shotgun using pellet ammunition ignores Dodge dice modifiers but armour gives double protection against pellet attacks and damage beyond listed range is halved.

 

[Geir]

using pellet ammunition

That's the question. Is foam a pellet or a canister (like a solid slug that splits on impact)? Not defined. Go with pellet, since it makes it more interesting.

 

[Condottiere]

Would think it involves a modified form of the knockdown rule, since actual damage is unlikely to have happened, except possibly suffocation.

 

[Gavain]

That's the question. Is foam a pellet or a canister (like a solid slug that splits on impact)? Not defined. Go with pellet, since it makes it more interesting.

I like the feel of it being like the pellet. I now see it as a goo that is ejected from the barrel expanding as it goes. It feels much more likely to encase and trap someone like that. Perhaps at longer ranges the expansion means that it is easier to escape. E.g. Difficult (10+) STR check at long range and average (8+) STR check at very long.

 

[AdamWillow]

To use a particular modification, the weapon firing it must be manufactured at a Tech Level matching or higher than the listed Tech Level of the ammunition type.
FOAM is a specialised ammo TL11 (for shotguns)
Shotguns are TL4-6

Do I need to go to a TL11 world to buy shotgun that can use FOAM ammo? Will TL11-produced shotgun be a TL11 weapon or still TL4?

 

[Arkathan]

Foam rounds are not a modification.
A modern 12ga rubber round can be fired from any 12ga shotgun. Same with taser rounds, glass window breakers or marker rounds.
Ammunition is standardized by weapon type in Traveller, so any snub pistol round will work in any snub pistol.
The foam round acts like any other low tech shotgun munition until it hits the target.
The only provision I would make for needing a more advanced weapon to fire a special munition is if the round needed telemetry from the weapon's targeting system to identify its target (smart rounds), and then only if it could not be tied to the user's head gear.

 

[Condottiere]

The cartridge is a delivery system.

If it has no effect on the effect of what's delivered, say where a minimum velocity is a necessity, then it should work.

 

[Geir]

To use a particular modification, the weapon firing it must be manufactured at a Tech Level matching or higher than the listed Tech Level of the ammunition type.
FOAM is a specialised ammo TL11 (for shotguns)
Shotguns are TL4-6

Do I need to go to a TL11 world to buy shotgun that can use FOAM ammo? Will TL11-produced shotgun be a TL11 weapon or still TL4?

That is what the rules literally say - the weapon must be at least the TL of the ammo.
But there's also a bunch of words stating that that the Referee is the final arbiter. Something like a foam round would probably work just fine in a TL4 shotgun - it's a chemical reaction in the round itself, and as mentioned by others, the shotgun is just delivering it - maybe even a slingshot would work (or it might need a firing pin to initiate the reaction - don't know, just making stuff up).
But let's take the example of a guided bullet in a pistol. While it might fire out of a TL4 revolver, the guidance likely requires some selection or initiation from a TL10+ firearm to know which target to follow - or it could just be heat seeking, fire-and-forget if that's what the referee wants, but it might not be all that smart in that case...