First Aid & Surgery

[Grimolde]

So first aid [pg 38] can stabilise a major wound but surgery [pg 43] can't?

I can't imagine telling a player, his character cannot stabilise the patient because his advanced Healing/Surgery skill is not equipped like the basic First Aid skill is.

 

[Deleriad]

So first aid [pg 38] can stabilise a major wound but surgery [pg 43] can't?

I can't imagine telling a player, his character cannot stabilise the patient because his advanced Healing/Surgery skill is not equipped like the basic First Aid skill is.

The two skills are meant to work together. Not much point trying to amputate an arm if the person has bled to death in the meantime.

Basically First Aid is used for emergency treatment within a short time of the original injury while Healing is used for long term and radical treatment.

That said, I would usually allow someone who knows Healing to use it for First Aid at perhaps -20% or -40% depending on the circumstances.

 

[Grimolde]

So first aid [pg 38] can stabilise a major wound but surgery [pg 43] can't?

I can't imagine telling a player, his character cannot stabilise the patient because his advanced Healing/Surgery skill is not equipped like the basic First Aid skill is.

The two skills are meant to work together. Not much point trying to amputate an arm if the person has bled to death in the meantime.

Basically First Aid is used for emergency treatment within a short time of the original injury while Healing is used for long term and radical treatment.

That said, I would usually allow someone who knows Healing to use it for First Aid at perhaps -20% or -40% depending on the circumstances.

Pretty much what I was thinking. Though seeing as First Aid is a 'Common' skill, they'd be able to use it at the default attribute level anyway? I was under the misguided impression that they would not have the first aid skill at all.

Thanks

 

[Deleriad]

So first aid [pg 38] can stabilise a major wound but surgery [pg 43] can't?

I can't imagine telling a player, his character cannot stabilise the patient because his advanced Healing/Surgery skill is not equipped like the basic First Aid skill is.

The two skills are meant to work together. Not much point trying to amputate an arm if the person has bled to death in the meantime.

Basically First Aid is used for emergency treatment within a short time of the original injury while Healing is used for long term and radical treatment.

That said, I would usually allow someone who knows Healing to use it for First Aid at perhaps -20% or -40% depending on the circumstances.

Pretty much what I was thinking. Though seeing as First Aid is a 'Common' skill, they'd be able to use it at the default attribute level anyway? I was under the misguided impression that they would not have the first aid skill at all.

Thanks

That is correct. However if they have specialised in healing (say 100%) but never bothered to increase their First Aid skill it might occasionally make sense to allow them to use the advanced skill at a penalty.

 

[GamingGlen]

Since the two skills are close in what they do, each could give the other a bonus equal to the critical value (10%).

When making a skill test of these skills:
First Aid = First Aid + 10% of Healing,
Healing = Healing + 10% of First Aid.

This would give some incentive to raise both skills, at least up to a point.

Another option, perhaps a cult or 'healing guild' requirement, is that the Healing skill cannot be greater than 2x or 3x the First Aid skill ("...a doctor has to be able to do the nurse's job as well as his own").

I envision a 'healing guild' to be a prestigious one, although it does not have to be the case, but its members are well-respected and are deemed neutral to all hostiles and tend to not be harmed by combatants of any side (i.e., The Red Cross in the real world, The Golden Ankh as an example name in a fantasy setting). .. I think I just might use the latter (building my own campaign setting, amazing that sometimes an idea off the top of the head might be something really useful ).

 

[Grimolde]

Since the two skills are close in what they do, each could give the other a bonus equal to the critical value (10%).

When making a skill test of these skills:
First Aid = First Aid + 10% of Healing,
Healing = Healing + 10% of First Aid.

This would give some incentive to raise both skills, at least up to a point.

Another option, perhaps a cult or 'healing guild' requirement, is that the Healing skill cannot be greater than 2x or 3x the First Aid skill ("...a doctor has to be able to do the nurse's job as well as his own").

I envision a 'healing guild' to be a prestigious one, although it does not have to be the case, but its members are well-respected and are deemed neutral to all hostiles and tend to not be harmed by combatants of any side (i.e., The Red Cross in the real world, The Golden Ankh as an example name in a fantasy setting). .. I think I just might use the latter (building my own campaign setting, amazing that sometimes an idea off the top of the head might be something really useful ).

Good points

 

[Greg Smith]

And to add a bit of levity:

Can I combine healing and first aid into one 'Medic' style?
Do I get an extra combat action if I have a scalpel in one hand and a bandage in the other?

:lol:

Back to your regularly scheduled thread....

 

[DamonJynx]

One of my players has both at roughly equal levels. I would've thought this would be the case with most "healing" type characters.

Also, use of the healing skill takes far longer than first aid so Deleriads point re amputating the limb after you've died is pretty valid.

Isn't there something in the RAW about synergistic bonus'?

 

[Grimolde]

One of my players has both at roughly equal levels. I would've thought this would be the case with most "healing" type characters.

Also, use of the healing skill takes far longer than first aid so Deleriads point re amputating the limb after you've died is pretty valid.

Isn't there something in the RAW about synergistic bonus'?

Good catch
Page 33 it is permissible to allow the secondary skill to provide a bonus equal to its critical score to the primary skill.

 

[EricJ]

Another option, perhaps a cult or 'healing guild' requirement, is that the Healing skill cannot be greater than 2x or 3x the First Aid skill ("...a doctor has to be able to do the nurse's job as well as his own").

If you take Medieval Christian Europe as a guide, the two skills wouldn't be correlated. First Aid would be the common skill; at higher levels it would include stitching up wounds. At still higher levels, it would be associated with barbering. It would be considered lower-class.

Healing, true medicine, would be the advanced upper-class skill. Practitioners might never pick up a scalpel, restricting themselves to leeches, cupping, and other techniques now recognized as quackery. Try to see a production of Moliere's Imaginary Invalid; it's set in 1673, but it shows the general attitude. Jewish and Moorish Europe practice would be a bit more reliable, and I have no idea about China or Japan. I don't know how this would translate to Glorantha.

 

[Verderer]

Clockwork and Chivalry does this type of 'medieval' healing (in the sense that modern medicine is still yet to be developed properly) in an interesting manner. It has three types of healing: Galenic, Herbal and Paracelsan.

Galenic is the type tought in Universities, and has its root in medieval tradition. You treat 'humours' byt reading astrological charts, examining urine, and of course bleeding the victim... er, patient.

Herbal healing is based on folklore and the old natural ways, so it's more common among the low classes, and often mistaken for witchcraft.

Paracelcean healing is new system that uses certain chemicals for healing, mercury, salt and sulphur for example.

Also, C&C handles deceases in very interesting manner, from the period (17th century) perspective, so these 'humours' and 'miasmas' and 'hellish forces' are treated as real. Lots of interestin deceases included in the campaign book from that perspective.

 

[carandol]

Worth pointing out, as regards medicine and Clockwork & Chivalry compared to the medieval period, that Paracelsan healing was not around until the sixteenth century, but Galenic and Herbal would be pretty much unchanged right through the medieval period, as was belief in humours, miasmas and hellish forces.

 

[Verderer]

Worth pointing out, as regards medicine and Clockwork & Chivalry compared to the medieval period, that Paracelsan healing was not around until the sixteenth century, but Galenic and Herbal would be pretty much unchanged right through the medieval period, as was belief in humours, miasmas and hellish forces.

Yes, good point, carandol.