Fighters Survivability

[Morpheus1975]

1st off everyone seems unhappy that fighters fire last.

I see no problems IF fighters can survive in order to fire last and maybe another round or two.

Option 1 - Give fighters 2 hits

Option 2 - AF is -2 to dodge

Option 3 - AF is -1 to dodge

Option 4 - Give fighter a "Save" roll
1-2 Dead
3-6 OK
This is after they fail the dodge.

Option 5 - Both 1 and 2

Option 6 - Both 1 and 3

I personally like 2 because the dodge trait already does a lot to protect fighters and lowering secondary weapon AD on ships is out of the question.

This also depends on whether you think AF is the main cause of fighter deaths or if it is just the number of volley as ship get.

Also if fighters get 2 hits what to do with a "wounded" flight is still debatable.

 

[Wulf Corbett]

There is no option for 'None of these are necessary if fighters activate in the normal order'.

Wulf

 

[Morpheus1975]

Nor should there be since that is not an issue related to survivability.

 

[Wulf Corbett]

Nor should there be since that is not an issue related to survivability.

Well, yes it is. Fighters will survive better if they are shot at less. And they will be shot at less when they can shoot first. Either the target will be unable to shoot back, or else the player will decide to shoot at a target that hasn't already shot that Turn. Survivability improves when you increase the chances of being insignificant.

Wulf

 

[lastbesthope]

The unnamed Option 7, fighters are fine the way they are.

LBH

 

[Balance]

As another wacky idea, perhaps combine a couple of ideas that seemed interesting:

Let Fleet Carriers use their Command trait to let a number of fighters (or Squadrons) act in as 'ships' for intitiative (or just firing) purposes as opposed to the normal Auxillairy Craft rules.

It's a very minor update. (Barring squadrons, which might also have to be revisited for this, maybe 3-4 at most would get to fire as initiative sinks.) It's not overly complex (although players would need to keep track of which ones acted out-of-order.

On the bad side it's effects would be minor, and some races would receive no benefit. It's definitely a concept that makes a 'carrier' fleet a bit more viable, but hopefully not overpowering.

 

[Morpheus1975]

IF fighters are given 2 hits what should happen to them when they take 1 hit and could they return to their carrier to replenish like the fleet carrier trait?

 

[TrueCentauri]

I choose option 2, because it has the least impact on the rules, is in line with the show as well, and limits bookkeeping and adjusting shiplists to nil.

Elegant, simple and effective. No extra dicing needed as well.

8)

 

[Rodders]

The unnamed Option 7, fighters are fine the way they are.

LBH

i vote this option too
i have never had a problem with this

 

[Chernobyl]

Well, yes it is. Fighters will survive better if they are shot at less. And they will be shot at less when they can shoot first. Either the target will be unable to shoot back, or else the player will decide to shoot at a target that hasn't already shot that Turn. Survivability improves when you increase the chances of being insignificant.

I have to agree here about 2000%. I can't tell you how much firing order influences who I'm shooting at. in a game where the firing sequence is back and forth, if you can potentially take out a ship before it has a chance to hurt you thats better than shooting somethinf that has already done its business. that will come later when you have no other targets.

The unnamed Option 7, fighters are fine the way they are.

sorry can't agree with this. Dedicated carriers wouldn't exist otherwise, and all we'd need are hyperions, novas, and omegas. this logic says to me "I'm happy with the limited role of using special orders against one or 2 fleets and throwing away the lives of the men in the starfuries against anybody else" But as it happens I live in a country with the biggest carriers on the block so I'm a product of my environment...oh, and there was my stint serving on a carrier :lol:

 

[Balance]

IF fighters are given 2 hits what should happen to them when they take 1 hit and could they return to their carrier to replenish like the fleet carrier trait?

I think if they head back to a Fleet Carrier, sure. Maybe make it an easy roll... (like a 2+ or 3+) to represent that sometimes the remaining fighters may take more time to get repaired and are broken up for the Fleet Carrier's other retreads.

Note that if it's worded properly, '2 hit fighters' could also be a balancing element. 1 hit gihters could be assigned to certain ships that should only have a small compelment, like say the White Star's Nials (which I believe in canon would only be a 2 fighter detachment)...

 

[texican]

I like an option that includes 1 and 2 plus dodge roll verse explosions and energy mines.

 

[bucky_bits]

I agree that fighters should mover first. They are by nature quicker and are used as the first line of offence/defence most ships have, mainly for an EA player like myself.

 

[Chernobyl]

if they're going to move first, they would also need to attack immediately after doing so. otherwise the ships simply move out of the way. (2" weapon range?) and that doesn't help any, because its puts the fighters back to where they were before - all attacking at once before ships can fight back.
an "all or nothing" approach isn't the answer I think...

Chern

 

[demonllamma]

I honestly don't think that there is anything seriously wrong with having the fighters shoot first. There is little that they can really do to any single ship. With a two inch range you end up with a questionable 11 ships able to shoot at a small based ship, the dynamics for a larger based one actually allow for less overall. Figure 4AD and a hull 4 ship with one interceptor, just for the sake of argument. That makes 22 hits, the interceptor will probably get 4-5 of those, that leaves 18. Statistically, that makes for 3 bulkheads and 3 criticals. Figure in about 3 extra damage for the crits on average (it is actually less than that), that works out to 21 damage. That is most certainly survivable for many non-patrol ships. If you factor in the fact that you just used a dozen frazis (3 flights worth and what I used to simulate this sans the whole small base thing for the olympus) to almost kill my olympus corvette is an astounding waste. Almost anything larger is going to have better defenses and having more likely than not fired on the fighters, the corvette would tie up twice it's PL worth of the enemy fighters and have taken some of them out (something like 4-6, perhaps more with AF missiles, before it dies). Additionally, the smaller ship is probably escorting something with even more guns that could fire on them. There are better ways to kill ships than with fighters, but fighters would work that way. It allows them to be a threat. Obviously, some of the fighters would work better this way, some not so much, but overall, it would not be the bloodbath described.