Federation: When do I fire my Photons?

[deadshane]

THIS POST IS REQUIRED READING AT STAR FLEET ACADEMY

I see lots of peeps on here talking about getting into overload range, getting in close, complaining about still hitting on 4's with photons at point blank, and wanting some sort of "proximity" photon rule.

There is nothing wrong with photons at all. They are a GREAT weapon.

Photons are devastating...at all ranges up to 15. Photons are a great equaliser against other races advantages. Combined with centerline phaser shots, they create an alpha strike that can put your opponent on the defensive very early in the game.

It is important to note that the ONLY weapon that outranges photons truly are drones. Disrupters may have a range of 24, but once an enemy moves within that range of one of your ships, you should be able to (in support) move YOUR ships 9-10 inches up to engage THAT ship. At long ranges, your phasers and ADD's should handle whatever drones are thrown at you..."hopefully".

Yes, photons only (at best) hit on 4's. However, if you think about it, they are more reliable than drones or plasma. They cannot be stopped by defensive fire, ADD's, or any of the typical defenses a ship can take. If you think about it, even ships on evasive maneuvering fail to declaw a photon armed ship...in the least.

The key to correct tactics using the photon is to realize that it is a direct fire weapon that will bypass shields with a Multihit4 and Devestating1... 1 in 6 times....at any range up to 15....and you have lots of them!

We're not talking about blasting down an opponents sheilds here to get at the meat. That's for plasma torpedo users and Kzinti. We're already doing that from the get-go, reinforced forward shields or not.

Photons are not a close range only weapon. If you have a fleet with say, 24 photon torpedo's in it (not hard to do at 1000pts), barring bad/fantastic dice rolling, that is potentially 4 photons penetrating an opponents shields on 6's. 16 internal hits with an average of 2-3 DEVASTATING criticals. This is serious damage to anyone. It will cripple many cruisers (especially whimpy Klingon ships).

Save your photons for close range and you deny yourself a prime opportunity to hamstring your opponent by literally taking one of his cruisers out of the game.

Pro's for firing at close range:
1. Gain 17% chance to hit
2. Possible overload use. (if your opponent obliges)

That's all.

Pro's for firing at Long range:
1. Increased target area in forward arc, i.e. harder to maneuver out of.
2. Increased possibility of concentrating entire fleet on single target (see number 1)
3. Early firing means an earlier second salvo of photons after reloading. (more heavy weapon shots)
4. Increased chance of taking one of the enemy ships out b4 it can properly engage at knife-fighting range.

Federation ships are not particularly maneuverable. Your photons arc of fire is F only. If you wait for the point blank shot there is a good chance that your opponent will be able to maneuver out of your arc of fire. This is ESPECIALLY the case in your dreadnought. What fool in his right mind is going to blindly charge into it's forward arc at range <6? :lol: That thing is lumbering and it will NEVER get a good target in it's front arc again....it has 6 photons for a reason....so that it will hit at long range with a few.

Remember, the key here is not blasting thru an enemies shields. The key is producing enough internals on a target to disable/destroy it. Only direct fire weapons can do that...and ONLY photons are TRULY scary when it happens. For this to happen, you need to roll 6's in as many photons across your FLEET as possible...not a single ship.

TACTIC: The Kaufman Retrograde

In ACTA:Star Fleet, the Kaufman Retrograde is used to get a long range photon shot off and help to maintain a forward arc of fire on your opponents ships while you reload.

To execute this maneuver, simply fire photons at long ranges at a prime enemy target. Do this with the entire fleet as your F arc of fire is increased at longer ranges. If possible you may leave a single ship with loaded photons in reserve.

Your next turn, reload armament and move backwards 4". In order to close to knife fighting range your opponent will have to charge into your forward arc phasers and possibly the photon/reserve ship. (which may have overloaded depending on what you think your opponent will do) Either your opponent will move close into you (where you can still give decent phaser fire) or he will dance on the edge of his disrupter range taking pot shots at your fleet.

The next turn, armament reloaded, fire again. Hopefully you have been able to maintain a forward arc of fire on the enemy fleet's best targets. At the very least, you should have been able to keep him off of your '6'.


Hope this helps you Federation guys out there. Keep fighting the good fight!

 

[billclo]

If you have a fleet with say, 24 photon torpedo's in it (not hard to do at 1000pts), barring bad/fantastic dice rolling, that is potentially 4 photons penetrating an opponents shields on 6's. 16 internal hits with an average of 2-3 DEVASTATING criticals.

I believe you have the math wrong. 24 Photons at long range (over 7.5") need a 5 or 6 die roll to hit. This means that only 8 of your photons will hit. One will probably penetrate the shields, not 4. Still painful for a typical Klingon cruiser.

One potential counter is for your opponent to use the Evasive Action Special Action. While not all ships will make the required die roll, it can reduce your chances of a hit to 1 in 6. Yes, it slows the ship conducting it down to 6"/turn, which can be beneficial if the Klingon wants to keep the range above 18" but not more than 24". The Klingons can still fire disruptors and drones with no penalty due to using Evasive.

The Klingons could also split up his ships (if he has enough), go to All Power to Engines, and go both left and right trying to get out of your forward arc. If you turn to keep one group of enemies in front of you, the other can more safely close. Both groups of ships can still pound on one target, trying to cripple it and restrict it's movement.

The Kaufman Retrograde can be effective. The Fed had best keep his formation tight; else the Klingon will cut out the closest ship and pound it. And if the Feds are reloading, they can't use Intensify Defensive Fire to help out the ship being cut out. If the Klingons can blow up a ship, the explosion will damage more ships than usual if the formation is too tight.

It also gives the Klingons a better chance of being able to dictate the engagement range.

For example, the Fed could do things this way:
Turn 1) try to charge into 15" and dump his Photons. Klingon concentrates everything on one ship to try and seriously damage it. The Klingons probably have a seriously damaged ship now.

Turn 2) the Klingon, being no fool tries to open the range. He could try to close and get to within overload range this turn, but the Turn 3 retribution by the Feds will be awful. The Feds use the Kaufman to retrograde 4" back and reload. Range opens up, hopefully to over 18, but at least the Klingons get to pick a range band and stay there.

Turn 3) Now, do the Feds continue to retrograde in the hope that the Klingons will be STUPID and charge their Photons (which can be overloaded if the Feds continue to retrograde)? Or do they try to surprise the Klingons and charge forward 12" and fire standard Photons?

 

[Nerroth]

Personally, one of the things I was glad to see go into Federation Commander was a double move cost for going in reverse*; precisely because it made things like the Kaufman retrograde harder to pull off than in Star Fleet Battles. It might just be a personal niggle, but it just feel somehow... wrong to be rewarded for flying your ships backwards to such a great extent.

I can't say I'm overly encouraged by the concept of it suddenly working wonders again in ACtA:SF.


*Only Andromedan ships in FC have the same movement cost either way, but for them that is quite intentional (i.e. to not give them an easier way to burn off the excess power accumulated during the course of a battle).

 

[Da Boss]

Moving backwards is actually not great you can only move 4" rather than the normal upto 12" - it will be situationally useful but of course there is only so much table!

on a related note wasn't going backwards really fast how the enterprise survived the Plasma from the Romulan ship? :wink:

What I think is useful from the Kilingon point of view is to hang back and then all power through the Fed fleet to try and keep out of Photon arc - especially for big targets like the Dreadnought -depends alot on in sinks and Iniaitive though

 

[MongooseMatt]

The Klingons could also split up his ships (if he has enough),

The Fed had best keep his formation tight;

There is a school of thought that, as the Fed player, you want the Klingons to split their fleet, and you want your fleet spread out. That way, the Klingon will naturally turn ships one way or the other to focus on a Fed ship, but it also exposes their side and rear shields to others...

 

[Stu--]

but it just feel somehow... wrong to be rewarded for flying your ships backwards to such a great extent.

Yeah I think so, too.. flying the fleet backwards just sounds ridiculous.
Although, you can't turn while you do it so it has limited use.


That way, the Klingon will naturally turn ships one way or the other to focus on a Fed ship, but it also exposes their side and rear shields to others...

What difference does that make? I didn't notice any rules about shield orientation or variable strength - did I miss something?

 

[Captain Jonah]

Update I take a few minutes to post and everyone jumps in while I'm not looking :lol:

That way, the Klingon will naturally turn ships one way or the other to focus on a Fed ship, but it also exposes their side and rear shields to others...

What difference does that make? I didn't notice any rules about shield orientation or variable strength - did I miss something?

Klingon ships have reinforced F arc shields. Hits to them that are on the front arc do half damage to the shield so its best to hit the Klinks from the sides or back as overall they have weaker shields than everyone else.


Penetrating hits are always fun but when you are working out your targets for the turn don't factor any in. GO for old school kills. If the target goes boom earlier then you can switch to the secondary target and soften it up for later. You can also dictate enemy movement in this way. If you destroy one mid range enemy ship and take most of the shields off the second this is two ships that are no threat next turn, the ship with no shields will either attack anyway and die to phasers or retreat to rebuild shields. In either case that is two enemy ships out of action next turn.

With target selection if someone is evading and someone is not then the non evader is a better target. Don’t pick a ship as main target that you MAY be able to kill if everything goes well. Pick a target you WILL kill even if a few dice rolls are bad. :wink:

Plan your fleet movement around the number of shots to kill without penetrations. If the target for the turn needs 10 photon hits to kill look at having 20 ready, or at least 15 and enough phasers to make up the extra. A phaser may only do 1 damage at that range but it hits fairly often and a 1000 point fed fleet should have 25-30 of them in arc and range of the target.

Always keep a goalkeeper or two back ready to overload on the next turn to cover the mass reload. Three photons on the battle frigate overloaded can crush many ships shields in one go, two of these can have a go at even a full sized cruiser if it tries to rush in while you are reloading. if the goalkeepers are agile or just manoeuvrable and can get in nice and close 5-6 photons should be plenty on over load.

Keep firing till you kill or cripple the target, don't spread your fire across several ships. Damaged ships can run off, repair shields and come back into the fight after a few turns and ships at the 20+/30+ point can rebuild shields very quickly.

Left over phaser or photon fire should be allocated against targets where you can have the most effect when possible. If there are two enemy targets in range and arc of some extra firepower and one has 18 shields, the other 20. Fire at the one with 18 shields. A ship with 20 shields recovers 2D6 a turn; the 18 shield recovers 1D6 a turn.

This is the case with many Klink ships. The front shield effect is powerful but once those shields are damaged it takes a number of turns to rebuild them and a few spare photons and a bunch of phasers can do enough to a Klink shield to take three or more turns to repair. This means in two turns when you are reloaded there is one or more targets out there will damaged shields.

Retrogrades are evil, if SFB they were evil. In ACTA-SFB the limit of 4” moves makes them far less effective. Plus the maps are fixed. Note, on retrograde you move 4”, all those fed ships with a turn mode of 6 or more Mwahahahahaha. :twisted:

Fast ships can flank a fleet retrograde, agile or manoeuvrable ships can get outside of the F arc. Remember that you fire at 12-15” ( you are unlikely to get everyone at exactly 15” from every enemy ship. You retrograde 4” while reloading, they can do 12 or 16 and can turn to flank you. On the next turn when you have reloaded they are starting within 2-5” from you and get to move. You can turn on the spot which is 45 degrees for all those cruisers, move forward and turn twice etc but either way the enemy are in a position to get behind you in a way that your cruisers cannot fire F arc stuff at.

I would say never retrograde, once the enemy close you can scissor much like the Gorn, you have more limited arcs but you get to turn at least twice unlike the floating bricks.

 

[Da Boss]

but it just feel somehow... wrong to be rewarded for flying your ships backwards to such a great extent.

Yeah I think so, too.. flying the fleet backwards just sounds ridiculous.
Although, you can't turn while you do it so it has limited use.


That way, the Klingon will naturally turn ships one way or the other to focus on a Fed ship, but it also exposes their side and rear shields to others...

What difference does that make? I didn't notice any rules about shield orientation or variable strength - did I miss something?

Klingon Ships have better shields if you fire at their front arc. 8)

 

[Stumonster]

Hi Stu . . nice name by the way.

I did not notice it at first either. It is a race specific rule for the Klingons. You can find it on page 81 in the fleets list.

And welcome!!

 

[hdan]

I believe you have the math wrong. 24 Photons at long range (over 7.5") need a 5 or 6 die roll to hit. This means that only 8 of your photons will hit. One will probably penetrate the shields, not 4.

The original math was correct: 1/3 of your shots should hit, and will be 5's and 6's. If those 8 hits, half of them are likely to be 6's, so 4 should penetrate the shields on average.

Ironically, evasive actions will cause the same damage (minus the shield hits). Since now 1 in 6 will hit on a 6, you should score 4 internals on 24 shots.

 

[Stu--]

Klingon ships have reinforced F arc shields. Hits to them that are on the front arc do half damage to the shield so its best to hit the Klinks from the sides or back as overall they have weaker shields than everyone else.

Yeah seen that now, thanks

Penetrating hits are always fun but when you are working out your targets for the turn don't factor any in. GO for old school kills. If the target goes boom earlier then you can switch to the secondary target and soften it up for later. You can also dictate enemy movement in this way. If you destroy one mid range enemy ship and take most of the shields off the second this is two ships that are no threat next turn, the ship with no shields will either attack anyway and die to phasers or retreat to rebuild shields. In either case that is two enemy ships out of action next turn.

Ooooh major rules query there then. (and let me say I'm a long time SFB/FC player)
I had assumed because I didn't see it anywhere else that shields auto-reset to their starting alue every turn. Is this not the case?
Do you get what you get - once - and when they're gone, they're gone? (barring special action regen)
This would make a lot more sense and be equivalent to FC/SFB..
But for some reason on my first reading of the rules I didn't make this connection.

An example of play would have been a really great addition to the book...

 

[hdan]

Ooooh major rules query there then. (and let me say I'm a long time SFB/FC player)
I had assumed because I didn't see it anywhere else that shields auto-reset to their starting alue every turn. Is this not the case?
Do you get what you get - once - and when they're gone, they're gone? (barring special action regen)

Once they're gone, they're gone. You can recharge them somewhat with a special action.

 

[Captain Jonah]

Shields are gone till repaired.

For example. The flat tops are fighting the Klinks, Again.

The flat tops destroy one ship and reduce another from 18 shield to 6 shield.

Next turn as the fleets move around that Klingon ship has 6 shields and is likely to be popular for the phaser target of choice. So the Klingon decides to run that ship away and selects the boost shields action. This restores 1D6 shields for every full 10 shields the ship started with so an 18 shield ship repairs 1D6 a turn on that special action, none are regained unless the special action is performed. (critical hits not covered here).

Say that turn the D6 roll is 3, the Klingon ship now has 9 shields.

Next turn it again boosts shields but this time a few phasers are in 18" range so it gets shot at again and takes 2 shields damage, the dice roll is, say, 4 so it gains 4 but loses 2 leaving it on 11 Shields.

Ships with shields under 20 are very hard to repair shields on, 20 and 30 are the magic shield numbers for ships being tough.

 

[Stu--]

Yeah makes an awful lot more sense now.

I believe it works completely differently from how they work in Noble Armada (I bought both at the same time as the new club 'space game')

Not bad for a 1st edition game, but a pointer with big flashing lights making that a lot more obvious should probably be on the change list for the 2nd edition..

 

[Da Boss]

Yeah makes an awful lot more sense now.

I believe it works completely differently from how they work in Noble Armada (I bought both at the same time as the new club 'space game')

Not bad for a 1st edition game, but a pointer with big flashing lights making that a lot more obvious should probably be on the change list for the 2nd edition..

Yeah Noble Armada has very different shield system - in fact all three ACTA games do.

 

[billclo]

I believe you have the math wrong. 24 Photons at long range (over 7.5") need a 5 or 6 die roll to hit. This means that only 8 of your photons will hit. One will probably penetrate the shields, not 4.

The original math was correct: 1/3 of your shots should hit, and will be 5's and 6's. If those 8 hits, half of them are likely to be 6's, so 4 should penetrate the shields on average.

Ironically, evasive actions will cause the same damage (minus the shield hits). Since now 1 in 6 will hit on a 6, you should score 4 internals on 24 shots.

Oops, you are correct.

 

[Stu--]

The 'close blast doors' special might be better?
at least that way 33% of the damage done will be repaired, on average..

Or maybe a pre-emptive 'all hands on deck' anticipating the crits you're going to take...

A TRUE Klink would go barreling in though, none of this defensive crap vooorcha !

(or probably more appropriately 'Heghlu'meH QaQ jajvam')

 

[Nerroth]

That may not necessarily be the case for the Star Fleet Universe Klingons, who might be closer to a Mongol horse archer than a Norse berserker in terms of battle doctrine.

(But there are those Lyran allies of theirs to look forward to, if you prefer to get up close and personal...)

 

[GalagaGalaxian]

Yup, SFU Klingons are modeled after what we saw in TOS (go back and watch the Klingon episodes and watch how they behave).

They are cunning and calculated warriors who view violence as a useful tool, but not always the first immediate option to take to solve a proplem (but violence is almost always AN option). A meritocratic, pseudo-Socialist(?) Police-state constantly battling it's own internal corruption and poor-economy. Honestly I like the SFU Klingons a lot better than what the head-strong HonorFightKillGlory! berserkers we got in later Star Trek series.


ANYWAYS, to be more on topic... I agree that long-range photon-fire has plenty of potential. Players should not fall prey to "too awesome to use" line of thinking and constantly not-fire photons, just waiting for that "perfect" overload shot (which may never arrive).

 

[scoutdad]

Deadshane: I think you should apply any revisions you feel are necessary following the recent discussions and then go over to the ADB board and post this in the ACTA Call Out Notes topic.
It's a pretty good breakdown of hte tactic and stands a good chance at gettign published in the upcoming issue of Captain's log.