Fate points and "left for dead"

[Trodax]

In what situations do you allow a PC to spend a Fate point to be "left for dead"?
Do you go by the exact written rule, and only allow it when the character is "killed because his hp reaches -10"?

Or, would you also allow it if the PC is, for example, killed by poison (Con damage) or killed by a death touch spell (instant death effect)?

Also, would you allow it in situations where the killing damage is regular hp damage, but the circumstances are particularly severe (for example, being buried under a couple tons of falling stone, or being thrown off a 200 feet cliff)?

 

[Oly]

I allow it whenever they would otherwise "die". If they buried under a rockfall then they just happened to be caught in a pocket within it, there's several real life stories of people falling thousands of feet from aircraft and surviving. It all feels fairly dramatic and heroic to me.

I've never had a situation where all the players in an encounter have been "left for dead" but if there were then it would be up to me how they recovered. They might find themselves having been captured for example.

Death for a PC is the easy way out, there's far nastier things that you can do besides killing them. Fate Points give you a mechanic for that

 

[Sutek]

Left For Dead (pg 163) says that if "a character's hit points reach -10 by any means" (underlining my emphasis) then he can spend a fate point to avoid dying.

Dead is defined as being -10 or lower, suffering massive damage, or ability drain or damage.

Poison deals ability damage, so it qualifies for the massive damage save.

 

[Maximo]

I will allow it against any deadly situation (yeah, falling from a 200 feet chasm & sorcery effects included) as long as I can think of a reason for the character to survive (like falling in a tree placed at the chasm's wall or magic only maiming the PC).

 

[urdinaran]

Just remember though, spending a Fate Point on Left for Dead is no guarantee that the character will survive. The character must be successfully Healed (DC15) within 1 hour or make a Fort Save (DC20) or die. If the situation is one where healing may be impossible or very hard to justify, oh well. In my last session, I had 2 players burn a Fate Point each due to Massive Damage, but their friends were there to drag them away.

 

[Trodax]

Left For Dead (pg 163) says that if "a character's hit points reach -10 by any means" (underlining my emphasis) then he can spend a fate point to avoid dying.

OK, maybe I should explain why I'm asking this.

My reasoning is that you can die for various reasons:
1) Your hp reaches -10 (this can be either from losing hp "normally", or from failing a Massive Damage save.
2) Your Con reaches 0.
3) You are instantly killed by some nasty effect (death touch, for example).
4) Other causes of death, such as dying of old age (not a likely outcome in Hyboria :wink: ).

Having your hp reach -10 is just one cause of death, its not something that happens automatically when you die for some other reason. Therefore, since "left for dead" is allowed when you die "because hp reaches -10", I think it could be argued that it is only in those situations that Fate points can save you. I'm not saying that either interpretation is right or wrong, though; just curious as to how other GM's rule it.

Personally, it hasn't really come up in my game yet, but I would probably also say that you can be "left for dead" when dying of any reason.

BTW, how would you all treat a "left for dead" character who's hp hasn't reached -10? Would you have him drop to hp -10 (or -9)?
For example, if a character is killed by death touch but uses a Fate point to survive, would you rule that he was unconscious and at -10 hp? Or would his hp be unaffected, and he just miraculously avoided the killing touch?

 

[Raven Blackwell]

To offer a counter point- I don't use Fate Points in my campaign. I fear they are too much a cushion or crutch for players that know that they can't die as long as they have at least one FP. It takes away some of the dramitic tension if you take away the feeling that Death could be just around the corner- or sneaking up on your backside. I find once a player makes it to 10th level though the odds of them dying out of hand are very slim.

Of course in a method of adapting to this policy a lot of my usual players tend to say things like "For my next character I'd like to try this..."- even while their current characters are still alive. 8)

 

[The King]

I prefer fate point as those used in D6 Star Wars, that is to enhance some rolls to be really heroic.
I believe D20 modern uses it in some way under the form of Action points.

 

[Sir Hackalot]

BTW, what if you taking more tan -10 on your h.p.s? Does it work if you take -48?

 

[Sutek]

-10 or more.

 

[Trodax]

To offer a counter point- I don't use Fate Points in my campaign. I fear they are too much a cushion or crutch for players that know that they can't die as long as they have at least one FP. It takes away some of the dramitic tension if you take away the feeling that Death could be just around the corner- or sneaking up on your backside.

I hear you, Raven. The risk of sudden, brutal death is quite appropriate for Conan games, methinks. It's bad if the PCs never feel they are in any real danger because they always have Fate points to fall back on.
On the other hand, combat in Conan can be a little to deadly for my taste (because of Massive Damage), and Fate points work great as a mitigating factor to this.

I guess some sort of compromise could be to use Fate points, but be very restrictive with handing out new points. This would make Fate points a very precious resource.

So, a follow-up question; how generous are you folks with handing out Fate points? Is there a steady flow, so that points are spent and refurbished continuously? Or are you more restrictive?

 

[Iago da Vamora]

So, a follow-up question; how generous are you folks with handing out Fate points? Is there a steady flow, so that points are spent and refurbished continuously? Or are you more restrictiv
e?

My GM has been very restrictive so far.
We are only lvl2-3 so far so we haven't had the chance to spend them either.
(one of us has used 1 point)

I find it better to be restrictive than not.
i'd rather face the possibility of running out of fate points then always feel safe.

I also wonder if anyone has ever used the "alter the past" effect of the fate points?
If so was it really good the campaign?

 

[Maximo]

Trodax wrote:

BTW, how would you all treat a "left for dead" character who's hp hasn't reached -10? Would you have him drop to hp -10 (or -9)?

-9 hp.
And I would consider adding a fancy scar to the character which suits the situation -a torso scar if someone thrusted a sword through him or a horrible scar in the face if he managed to survive that nasty Death Touch in his face.

However, I've never had to deal with a PC being killed by this spell which puts the hearth in the sorcerer's hand... I guess there would no way to survive this without rendering the spell useless, which I won't do either.

Perhaps in cases of Instant Death, a bonus to the save would be in order -with usual results for a failed save.

Trodax wrote:

So, a follow-up question; how generous are you folks with handing out Fate points? Is there a steady flow, so that points are spent and refurbished continuously?

For the reasons you mentioned in your post (the need for balance) I am quite restrictive as for granting FPs. I only grant FPs after SEVERAL adventures or when the deeds of PCs were so outstanding that it feels right.

In any event, there's no player with more than 4 FPs in my gaming group -and this is because I have a starting Hyborian.

In case it needs to be clarified, I think PCs must feel they can die if they make the wrong decissions or just make bad rolls, but having one PC die outright because he fails a otherwise uneventful Climb DC 15 roll does not feel right in a epic story.

 

[Oly]

Hi,

Although I allow Fate Points to save a PC from death the PCs know that they are in danger. This is because, as I said earlier, there's much worse things you can do to them other than kill them.

You maim them, scar them, kill their favourite NPCs, take their equipment away, break that cherished weapon, have them all captured, humiliate them or any other such thing.

Death is the end of a PCs story, surviving it with a fate point means that the story can continue with an interesting twist or a new obstacle.

Killing a PC is easy, really screwing his world up takes a devious GM and is something a player should truly fear.

Oly

 

[Raven Blackwell]

Trodax wrote:

BTW, how would you all treat a "left for dead" character who's hp hasn't reached -10? Would you have him drop to hp -10 (or -9)?

-9 hp.

Don''t forget guys- certain Feats like Diehard or the Barbarian ability Unconquerable mean that a character may not die until well below -10 hp.

 

[Raven Blackwell]

I hear you, Raven. The risk of sudden, brutal death is quite appropriate for Conan games, methinks. It's bad if the PCs never feel they are in any real danger because they always have Fate points to fall back on.
On the other hand, combat in Conan can be a little to deadly for my taste (because of Massive Damage), and Fate points work great as a mitigating factor to this.

Which is why I removed the Death by Massive Damage rule too to counterbalance it. I mentioned that in a little seen topic called 'Raven's Errata' a long while back. I have to start posting some more of my house rules to get it out of the basement.

 

[Trodax]

On the other hand, combat in Conan can be a little to deadly for my taste (because of Massive Damage), and Fate points work great as a mitigating factor to this.

Which is why I removed the Death by Massive Damage rule too to counterbalance it.

Oh, I see. Cool.
So, damage-wise, your combats are a little more like standard D&D then (no Massive Damage, no Fate points).
Well, except for the lack of Divine healing and fireballs flying all over the place, I mean...

 

[Raven Blackwell]

So, damage-wise, your combats are a little more like standard D&D then (no Massive Damage, no Fate points).
Well, except for the lack of Divine healing and fireballs flying all over the place, I mean...

Yup- only the higher damage done by weapons in the Conan game and the inability to cure wounds instantly makes standard combat a bit more lethal. Also the prevelance of posionous and alchemical products makes people stay on their toes no matter how many hit points they have.

 

[Sutek]

DId you do away with FPs altogether then? It would seem that without MD, FP activation of a mighty blow is a little more generous.

I think MD is just fine in the game, because that's not the only time you use a FP to save you life. You can use them if you "die" from poison or any sort of ability loss too. Whatever results in "dead" means -10HP has been reached, and by that being the case, FP expenditure to avoid it is legal. It's written pretty tightly too, so it's intentional and not a loop-hole or something.

 

[Raven Blackwell]

Like I've said before- it's whatever works for you that works. The base rules are just the platform to modify from IMHO.