Enchantment Sorcery in Glorantha - Zistorite only?

[PhilHibbs]

...in a society where every cultist has access to powerful sorcery that they can further manipulate, the ability to churn-out magic items needs to be subject to some restraint.

The MPs have to come from somewhere. There is one get-around that I can think of that allows for unlimited enchantment-cranking, and that's Tap followed by Restoration. Not many grimoires are going to have both those spells, though, and persuading a Xemelan to abuse her gifts in such a profligate manner might be tricky. Although Esvulari also get it... I think that's the only two Orders in CoG that have Restoration. Everyone else either has to use up valuable magic crystals, or Tap something permanently. And that's frowned upon.

 

[Lord High Munchkin]

You can always tap ducks... they don't count in anyone's books (it helps tenderise them).

Although the Vadeli are very friendly towards them. They simply love ducks!

 

[Loz]

...in a society where every cultist has access to powerful sorcery that they can further manipulate, the ability to churn-out magic items needs to be subject to some restraint.

The MPs have to come from somewhere. There is one get-around that I can think of that allows for unlimited enchantment-cranking, and that's Tap followed by Restoration. Not many grimoires are going to have both those spells, though, and persuading a Xemelan to abuse her gifts in such a profligate manner might be tricky. Although Esvulari also get it... I think that's the only two Orders in CoG that have Restoration. Everyone else either has to use up valuable magic crystals, or Tap something permanently. And that's frowned upon.

And there's always the possibility that Zistorwal sits on a bleeding massive source of natural magical energy - perhaps a crystal or residual energy from shards of the Spike (which is what the Mostali typically tap into).

 

[PhilHibbs]

And there's always the possibility that Zistorwal sits on a bleeding massive source of natural magical energy - perhaps a crystal or residual energy from shards of the Spike (which is what the Mostali typically tap into).

Of course, there's something special going on in Zistorwal outside of the normal Enchanting spell possibilities. Which means that Enchanting can't get out of hand and be used to mass produce magical items elsewhere in the Empire. Yet that is the excuse for it being restricted.

 

[Oku]

Hmmm, so you could buy your enchantments and magical items from zistorites? Any thoughts on how much they should cost...

 

[PhilHibbs]

Hmmm, so you could buy your enchantments and magical items from zistorites? Any thoughts on how much they should cost...

They tend to become unreliable if they are taken away from Zistorwal. Zistorite magical items aren't just regular by-the-book Enchanted spells.

 

[Oku]

Hmmm, so you could buy your enchantments and magical items from zistorites? Any thoughts on how much they should cost...

They tend to become unreliable if they are taken away from Zistorwal. Zistorite magical items aren't just regular by-the-book Enchanted spells.

I meant regular by-the-book enchantments and items. I suppose they sell them if they have a monopoly on them.

 

[PhilHibbs]

Hmmm, so you could buy your enchantments and magical items from zistorites? Any thoughts on how much they should cost...

They tend to become unreliable if they are taken away from Zistorwal. Zistorite magical items aren't just regular by-the-book Enchanted spells.

I meant regular by-the-book enchantments and items. I suppose they sell them if they have a monopoly on them.

This is getting confusing. Loz is saying that Zistorwal cranks out by-the-book, (reliable?) magic items built using the A&E Enchant spells. The Clanking City source book for RQ1 says that there are machines in Zistorwal that crank out magic items, which tend to go wrong when taken away from Zistorwal. Are we talking about two different kinds of mass-produced magic items? Or, is there something odd about the Zistorwal MP source used to create A&E Enchantmants that makes them unreliable? I suppose if they have an imperial monopoly, there's no reason to pay any attention to quality control.

 

[Loz]

I meant regular by-the-book enchantments and items. I suppose they sell them if they have a monopoly on them.

There's a general impression that Zistorwal is this immense Walmart for magic items. Not so. They do manufacture magic items en-masse, but not for general sale. The Zistorites chief goal is to create the Machine God: the vast bulk of the enchantments they manufacture go into that particular project, which has hundreds of separate mini-projects.

Magic weapons and other things are manufactured, but through imperial commission. You can't just turn-up at Zistorwal, produce a bulging purse of cash and say 'Your finest Bladesharp 20 sword please, and be quick about it my good man. I have heathens to murder...'

Also, in 908, Zistorwal's nigh-on impossible to reach. The EWF, Orlanthi and Mostali have it under lock-down.

 

[Oku]

So, they do sell them... though only to 'the Government'...

 

[Loz]

This is getting confusing. Loz is saying that Zistorwal cranks out by-the-book, (reliable?) magic items built using the A&E Enchant spells. The Clanking City source book for RQ1 says that there are machines in Zistorwal that crank out magic items, which tend to go wrong when taken away from Zistorwal. Are we talking about two different kinds of mass-produced magic items? Or, is there something odd about the Zistorwal MP source used to create A&E Enchantmants that makes them unreliable? I suppose if they have an imperial monopoly, there's no reason to pay any attention to quality control.

'The Clanking City' book is... um... flawed in quite a few ways. Its under correction for 'The Abiding Book'.

 

[PhilHibbs]

'The Clanking City' book is... um... flawed in quite a few ways. Its under correction for 'The Abiding Book'.

Rats. I bought it thinking that, despite it being for MRQ1, it would all still be good background info that would not change.

 

[PhilHibbs]

Hmmm, so you could buy your enchantments and magical items from zistorites? Any thoughts on how much they should cost...

More likely, you could buy magical items from someone who's just beaten up a bunch of Zistorites. I'd say at least 1000sp, even if it's only a minimal effect such as Bladesharp 1. Maybe that's cheap.

 

[Ultor]

Hmmm, so you could buy your enchantments and magical items from zistorites? Any thoughts on how much they should cost...

More likely, you could buy magical items from someone who's just beaten up a bunch of Zistorites. I'd say at least 1000sp, even if it's only a minimal effect such as Bladesharp 1. Maybe that's cheap.

The trouble is you're then likely to get beaten up by a gang of Mostali. If classical RQ thinking still applies here then they're not happy about the mass production and are reclaiming everything that came out of Zistorwal as essentially their own stolen property. Might make for a nice adventure, though.

 

[Loz]

The trouble is you're then likely to get beaten up by a gang of Mostali. If classical RQ thinking still applies here then they're not happy about the mass production and are reclaiming everything that came out of Zistorwal as essentially their own stolen property. Might make for a nice adventure, though.

Absolutely. The Mostali hate the Zistorites. They're enthusiastic participants in the New Unity Council and New Unity Army that's got Zistorwal under siege. The mass production of magical weapons is clearly based on the theft of secrets from the Maker before the Spike exploded (in fact, this helped the Spike explode) and so anyone who brazenly makes such things deserves the close attentions of a Battle Spanner.

And I quite agree: great idea for a scenario: 'The Zistorwal Job', escaping from the weapon crypts of the Clanking City in sorcery-powered Mostali go-carts laden with swag, and pelting down freshly dug dwarf assault tunnels beneath the seabed, pursued by sorcery-crackling Zistorite Exultant-class flying ships.

Please - someone write this scenario up for Living Glorantha... I don't have the time...!

 

[PhilHibbs]

Aah, I get it, Enchant (Sorcery Spell) was stolen from the Mostali. Or, at least, the technique for tapping into "infinite" power reserves (shards of the Spike, maybe, as Loz suggested) was stolen. It makes sense that Mostali have Enchant, if only because Stabilise Masonry is pretty useless without it, other than for setting traps for imminent pursuers or invaders. Oooh, nasty!

 

[Oku]

How do God Learners bind all those elementals and spirits if Enchanting Ritual is a rare spell? Do they call upon zistorites whenever they need some undines for their ships etc? Or when they need some warding enchantments for important places?

 

[Loz]

How do God Learners bind all those elementals and spirits if Enchanting Ritual is a rare spell? Do they call upon zistorites whenever they need some undines for their ships etc? Or when they need some warding enchantments for important places?

No, they manipulate the summoning spell's duration to keep the summoned entity contracted for an extended period. Binding through the Enchantment ritual is somewhat risky as the binding can fail and the entity may react badly to the attempt - or simply disappear. It also means you have to bind Magic Points that you then can't reuse until you drop the binding. Its better to summon something and then continue to extend the spell through recasting.

Also, although the Zistorites have the monopoly on enchantments they are not the only ones who can do it. If you recall, earlier in this thread I mentioned that the Abiding Book has spells in three levels: Common, Order and Forbidden. Enchantment is an Order ritual meaning that only certain orders have access to it. The Zistorites are one such order, but there will be others (although they're not common and quite specialised. They may need to petition the Abiding Book for the use of the ritual).

 

[Oku]

How do God Learners bind all those elementals and spirits if Enchanting Ritual is a rare spell? Do they call upon zistorites whenever they need some undines for their ships etc? Or when they need some warding enchantments for important places?

No, they manipulate the summoning spell's duration to keep the summoned entity contracted for an extended period. Binding through the Enchantment ritual is somewhat risky as the binding can fail and the entity may react badly to the attempt - or simply disappear. It also means you have to bind Magic Points that you then can't reuse until you drop the binding. Its better to summon something and then continue to extend the spell through recasting.

Also, although the Zistorites have the monopoly on enchantments they are not the only ones who can do it. If you recall, earlier in this thread I mentioned that the Abiding Book has spells in three levels: Common, Order and Forbidden. Enchantment is an Order ritual meaning that only certain orders have access to it. The Zistorites are one such order, but there will be others (although they're not common and quite specialised. They may need to petition the Abiding Book for the use of the ritual).

Ah, I see. So, what's the summoning spell like? And is it Common or Order spell? Do sorcerers use spirits at all anymore? No more INT spirits?

Tap is of the Forbidden category, I presume? What other spells are Forbidden besides it? Some in the Necromantic Arts book? Or should I wait for the Abiding Book?

 

[PhilHibbs]

Tap is of the Forbidden category, I presume? What other spells are Forbidden besides it? Some in the Necromantic Arts book? Or should I wait for the Abiding Book?

Some orders have Tap in their grimoire - Hadmalists get Tap INT, for example, and they aren't exactly maverick basphemers, they're about as close to mainstream Malkioni as you can get.