Empire of Wyrms' Friends- culture

[Arlaten]

I have some questions about the Empire of Wyrms’s Friends after reading ‘Glorantha the Second Age.’ I was hoping the book would cover this in more detail because I would like to run a campaign in Dragon Pass in the Second Age.

Some of my questions weren’t answered by reading the material in the book. They mainly deal with how the barbarians within the Empire of Wyrm’s friends differ from those who are not in the Empire.

Usually in history when a group of barbarians or nomads replace their family clan identity with a national-political identity with its own myths and histories, the culture changes drastically. People begin to use currency associated with their new identity, they pay their soldiers, they move away from the clan and settle in city-states, etc. This is what I was expecting to see with the EWF, but I don’t see any these changes addressed in the setting core book (which I would have thought would be a major feature). These people can’t be Orlanthi ‘who fight as Orlanth did against sterile authority, against the forces of Chaos, against those who would steal our freedom.’

I was hoping for a ‘My Life, My Myths’ section for these people.

Also, isn’t it kind of impractical to have a dragon of the size shown on page 28 inhabiting the world? What will it eat? How will it survive? When it comes to life will Dragon Pass be destroyed? Does it make any sense to build a civilization there?

So, anyway, is this organization supposed to be somewhat similar to the Snake cult in Conan the Barbarian (movie), where Crom would be Orlanth and the Snake Cult would be the Empire of Wyrm’s Friends? That is the best approximation I can come to.

If that’s the case we don’t really see an Empire of Wyrm’s Friends as yet, but only temples to the Dragons and a religion that is developing a strong following?

Has anyone wrapped their mind around this or have any answers or internet resources?

 

[StephenT]

The way I see the EWF, it is certainly more urbanised than First Age Heortling culture - and for that matter more urbanised than Dragon Pass will be in the Third Age. And yes, urban life brings with it all the trappings of civilisation. BUT the vast majority of Orlanthi still live up in the hills in their villages and clans, and might only visit a city once or twice in their lifetimes.

They're aware of the new Dragon religion, and some of them are interested in the secrets of power it offers and go off to join the Hunting and Waltzing Bands. Others just shrug and get on with life. Later on, the EWF religion gets more political power, and starts ordering clans to sacrifice and worship the Dragon leaders, and imposes taxes and such, and becomes a proper empire - but it didn't start that way.

Also, isn’t it kind of impractical to have a dragon of the size shown on page 28 inhabiting the world? What will it eat?

Cynical answer: it'll eat everybody who isn't a follower of the EWF. :twisted:

Mystic answer: it'll eat itself, starting with its tail, in an act of sacred utuma.

Religious answer: the Cosmic Dragon is the embodiment of the powers of creation, not a physical creature. It doesn't need to 'eat'.

 

[Arlaten]

What you're saying makes sense. But, I still have a hard time pinning down the culture of Dragon Pass. Is it a blossoming civilization with verdant fields, huge cities with beautiful architecture and educated citizens with strong law and citizenship? All are considered equal in terms of law...but the church is hierarchal? Is good health care (in terms of magic available to all of the people?

Is it a theocracy like the Byzantine empire where the church controls everything, membership hierarchal (I guess this would have to be true) and the elite dine off the labors of an underpriviledged social class live in dirty and poorly maintained hovels and can't read or write? All art is promoted from within the church and the people outside benefit from it, but aren't actually part of it.

Or does the Dragon cult stay in the background, a mystical organization with secret tiers of membership as in the Greek mystery religions and they control and pull political strings without being visible. Society and cities are not much different than any Bronze age city of Sumeria except at an invisible level. (I'm not talking about the older mystical cities of living stone that seem to change at random).

If you were to visit from outside would it be a desirable place to move to, or would it be a nice place to visit but you wouldn't want to live there, would outsiders get a sense of forboding and feel uncomfortable, etc.? Or is much of this not explained and just waiting to be written? Would cities be dirty and smelly and filled with sorcerous thieves who prey on the wealth of the rich?

Does each city have a spirit ( or a soul) that can be summoned for information or magical powers?

I just thought for an Empire it ought to be given more description, and not something that would change that much from gaming group to gaming group. So I thought maybe there might be some general opinions of what the culture of Dragon Pass is like that are more descriptive than GtSA is.

In other words, I can see a lot of different ways to view the culture, but when developing it for a campaign I would like to meet the most popular expectations of it, and not have it suddenly change when a new supplement comes out...if you know what I mean.

 

[Rurik]

Magic of Glorantha has much more on the EWF, including cities and politics. It is largely a God Learner and EWF sourcebook and includes Draconic Mysticism (magic).

Not a ton on cultural details of the everyday life in the region but what can you do with 96 pages to cover a few subjects?

There is also a bit on the EWF going on at the World of Glorantha Yahoo Group.

 

[Arlaten]

Rurik wrote

Magic of Glorantha has much more on the EWF, including cities and politics. It is largely a God Learner and EWF sourcebook and includes Draconic Mysticism (magic).

Thanks. I don't have that one. I guess I should pick it up. I don't have to know a lot about everyday culture. I can piece that together from some solid info about basic society structure. Actually, one well-written paragraph is all I need.

 

[Alakoring]

Does each city have a spirit ( or a soul) that can be summoned for information or magical powers?

Don't have time to answer all your points, but this one is a yes. Most Gloranthan settlements have some sort of guardian spirit, all the way down to a hearth.

 

[Voriof]

Does each city have a spirit ( or a soul) that can be summoned for information or magical powers?

Its not so much as the city's soul as a guardian spirit, founder saint, or tuletary deity. This provides protection and power in exchange for worship. Pavis is a rather complex example of a City God. There was a section on city gods, spirits, and saints for Cults but it was cut for space.

According to Greg, every community or organzation has some sort of guardian to make it 'real.' If it does not, its just a bunch of people, not a real community. The smaller the group, the weaker the guardian (but the greater share of attention you get). Sartar's cult would be an example of a kingdom guardian. The Black Oak might be a clan or bloodline guardian. There's a sense of diminishing returns - a family might have a guaridan but the requirement of support and sacrifice to get themselves a fairly powerful one might be prohibitive.

The Raus family from the old Borderlands pack might serve as a good example of both Ancestor Worship and as a small group with their own guardian. However, the concept of guardians and wyter really post-dates the RQ era - the only real references that I can recall are in TotRM and Dorastor: Land of Doom.

Jeff

 

[richaje]

I strongly recommend checking out Greg's recent post to the World of Glorantha on the Dragon Religion. Greg and I have been in a EWF frenzy recently.....

 

[Arlaten]

richaje wrote:

I strongly recommend checking out Greg's recent post to the World of Glorantha on the Dragon Religion. Greg and I have been in a EWF frenzy recently.....

If anyone is unfamiliar with this,and would like to follow the discussion, World of Glorantha is a Yahoo group found at:

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/WorldofGlorantha/

Thanks richaje.

 

[Sinisalo]

In our tribe traditional worship of the storm tribe is banned in public but allowed in private. Amongst the clans the passion for draconic interpretation of the storm tribe has transformed worship significantly but it is still the same gods, just thought of differently. Orlanth may be painted with a Klanth or forked tongue for example but it is still Orlanth.

Our tribe split accrimoniously due to the empire demanding we abandon sacrificing to our ancestors. We made a bloody exodus from our urban centres with our ancestors on our wagons and our shields on our backs. Our clan (and tribe) now have a much greater burden of sacrifice if we are to contribute to the Great Dragon To Come (and avoid war).

Those clans that abandoned ancestor worship were mostly townsfolk who have taken the dragon ideal too far. They now form urban enclaves protected from us by imperial mercenaries. Many of them do not worship the Storm Tribe at all!

They recently placed Orlanth in an alcove and placed a giant Klanth in the place of honour in their temple. We raided at night and put Orlanth back on his pedestal, stealing the Klanth. We browbeat the temple daimones (they know us it was once our temple and anyway we are right and they know it). Easy work and in honour of Finovan.

1% of our clan have been fooled by foreign interpretations of our religion and only worship Dragons. These are mostly weirdos or imperial brown-nosers.

9% of our clan spend too much time away from the soil and have become "civilised". They worship more Dragon and only give the Storm Tribe lip-service. These are ambitious people like Thanes, Chief Priests and Chiefs who mix too much with outsiders.

40% are draconic worshippers of the Storm Tribe who never worship in the Old Way but do honour our ancestors.

40% worship in the old way in private and also in the new publicly. Tradition is a powerful thing for us.

10% avoid draconic mysticism whenever possible, sometimes even if it means a fine. Mostly they worship on hill tops and ancient glades.

The new ways are seductive, enjoyable and enlightening but our ancestors demand we listen to the past!

<Religious sectarianism is really groovy but only in a game world>

 

[Sinisalo]

A lot of the clan don't even know the difference between old and draconic worship. In the real world I've got a mate at work who is a Glasgow Rangers supporter has been known to go to the odd Orange Lodge meeting (ie, very very protestant) but wears a ring with a Catholic Saint on it. When I pointed out his error he didn't even know what I was talking about.

Anyway, sorry to bring real secteranism into it.

 

[GianniVacca]

Usually in history when a group of barbarians or nomads replace their family clan identity with a national-political identity with its own myths and histories, the culture changes drastically.

True, but not always true. The mounted nomads of the steppes all had pretty much the same living style irrespective of time, language/ethnic group, or religion.

 

[Rasta]

Yeah, I agree with the others. I picture for the most part Orlanthi culture has changed little. Outlook and attitude changing little. With the vast majority of draconized orlanthi unaware that they are doing a blasphemy to the old way.

I picture the temples being the biggest (outward)difference. Probaly converting the old to the new. With a small fraction of the people, (probably mostly influential:Chiefs, Priests, ect) who have made drastic changes: ie, forked toungue, speaking Auldish, adopting new styles of clothing, new ways of thinking, ect. I picture the EWF building forts or other fortifications in areas where the "Storm Rebels" are more active to house the draconized troops, but I feel there is less influence at the time on the fringes of the empire.

I also think another change would be a greater influx of Dragonewts in areas that are more supportive of the EWF. Possibly housing a legion of dragonewts. Probaly a higher percentage of those in central areas, where there is greater influence from EWF.

I picture kind of a Viet Nam like feel, where it is hard to distiguish the rebels from the draconized majority. The EWF as an emerging powerhouse empire still not fully on it's feet, but already feeling a little backlash in the higher rings of authority.

I think the major opposition in the form of rebellion to the EWF comes from Talastar, Bilini, Aggar from the east. Carmania to the North. Ultimately Carmania and Talastar join to become the Old Way Traditionalists, and are the founders of the True Golden Horde which marches on Dragon Pass and is a prelude to the Dragon Kill. Of course many others join the True Golden Horde.

 

[gamesmeister]

I thought it was the Pelorians who originally raised the TGH, although my knowledge of that time of Glorantha is pretty sketchy.

 

[Rasta]

I'm pretty sure that Talastar, Aggar, Bilini, Carmania, Dara Happa, are all in Peloria.

 

[Alakoring]

The EWF as an emerging powerhouse empire still not fully on it's feet...

The Eternal Dragon Ring was established 80 years ago! Obduran the Flyer was elected to the ring 100 years before that. How long does it take to get on its feet?

 

[Rasta]

I guess that depends on your definition of "fully on their feet". I was under the impression that the EWF did not controll as much territory as the God Learners, did not have as much money, ect. So when comparing one major empire to another.

It's a matter of terms really.

 

[sidkfjjteidlkkf]

Would seem to me it would follow the Dragonknewt Culture, which is coming soon...

 

[Rasta]

Yeah, I'm excited for that. I gotta get the UZ book first.

 

[sidkfjjteidlkkf]

Me too! Uz, Dragonknewts and that is it!!! (YEAH RIGHT!!! :lol: )