Earlier Babylon Stations

Brass Jester

Mongoose
Just got the RPG [present from Santa] and already got several A4 pages covered with notes. As an intro, as my likely players are big B5 fans, I was planning a small arc starting in 2251 and based around Babylon 3, the PC's will get involved in the 2251 Mars Food Riots and may have a chance to influence the sabotage of B3. Along the way they may encounter people like Sinclair, Garibaldi, Sheridan etc. as well as Dr Kyle (I'm planning for him to be on B3)

Now, are there any schematics/plans /sketches/ engravings etc. for what the earlier Babylon stations looked like? Obviously I know what B5 and B4 look like, but what about B3 (specifically).

In absence of anything else, my thoughts were a series of rotating rings around a central power/ manufacturing hub ( like the station in the film 2001, but with 5-6 rings.) The station is being rushed to completion so much is still under construction. There are no Ambassadors (yet) although many races are already present. The whole place has a 'boom town' air, with construction workers, raw materials, various competing companies vying for contracts, industrial espionage, inflated prices, bar-room brawls etc. REM at this point in time, no-one has seen a Vorlon.

(as an aside, xref James Hogan's excellent novel 'The Two Faces of Tomorrow' for something like I have in mind, except mine's bigger.)
 

Mr_Punch

Mongoose
There's not really much to go on as regards the layout of the earlier Bab stations, but certain things can be assumed from the ones we do see.

We can assume that all five stations follow the O'Neill cylinder pattern (rather than being Orion style bases) given that 1, 4 & 5 definitely do.

We get a glimpse of B1 (which is red) at the end of "In the beginning" and it seems quite long with the familiar docking/C&C bulb at one end, at least. Given B4 and 5 both have similar looking bulbs you can probably assume 2 & 3 had them as well.

B1 looked to be thicker in the central core than 5 but nowhere near as chunky as B4 was.

B5 was said to be built (in part) from leftovers of the earlier construction efforts (with the new stuff paid for with minbari aid when the EA ran out of cash), and so was proabably the smallest of the stations.

At a personal guess I'd from the outside that B2 would be orange and B3 yellow. No reason, apart from the rainbow asthetic for the entire line. Sadly, that could only hold true if you already knew you were going to make more than one more station at any particular time :)

So for a final guestimate of B3 -
Slightly thicker and longer than B5, with perhaps a docking bay at each end (like B4 - though that requires you put the reactor somewhere else, perhaps along the spine).
Yellow and Metal panelling, as per usual look of EA stuff.
The big cooling/solar fins common to the other stations / explorer vessels (maybe radially mounted like B4)

john
 

Brass Jester

Mongoose
Mr P
Thanx for the input, I hadn't considered the thought that B5 might be the smallest of the stations, although I did know that it was built out of the remains of the others.
I think the docking bulb/CnC idea still fits with my vision of B3; I suppose it's possible they went for a different design for B3 due to the previous two failures.
 

Vorlon Raals

Mongoose
I am wondering if we will see more the Babylon 4 Station? There is mention of it the Rangers Sourcebook.

I hope Mongoose will expand the B4 Station.


David P.
 

Mr_Punch

Mongoose
Some additional thoughts:

B5's might have the had reactor mounted down the end of that boom due to problems with the previous stations designs. Perhaps some of the others might actually be less than 8km long, but with the entire length made up of the Hab tube instead.

Regarding different globe designs, B1 & B5 share the sam design, but B4 has dual stretched cylinders for the docking ports. B2 &3 might have had different designs too, with B5's one being put together out of the remains of B1's (which seemed to be the only surviving part of B1 after the rest of the super-structure collapsed.)

john
 

Ulkesh

Mongoose
Wasnt it mentioned somewhere that B5 was based on an Explorer hull after all the previous ships being lost?

Also i think it was said that B4 was alot more heavily armed then B5 was.
 

lastbesthope

Mongoose
From my knowledge, B4 was the biggest of the stations, the best armed, and the only one with engines to move it around. B5 was the smallest and built on the cheap, even then only because the Minbari jumped in with fundingso they could get the Commander veto.

LBH
 

Shadow Queen

Mongoose
You will need the 4th season source book "No surrender no retreate" (If spelling is wrong too bad) As it has the Babylon 4 stats and has the conversion for when it goes back in time.
 

frobisher

Mongoose
Shadow Queen said:
You will need the 4th season source book "No surrender no retreate" (If spelling is wrong too bad) As it has the Babylon 4 stats and has the conversion for when it goes back in time.

That would be "Point of No Return", the 3rd Season fact book...
 

lastbesthope

Mongoose
Shadow Queen said:
yes thats the one ........ opps well i have guests and they are messing with my babylon 5 books

You know what the penalty for that is, "Stripped naked and thrown out the nearest airlock!"

LBH
 

Waylander.

Mongoose
lastbesthope said:
Shadow Queen said:
yes thats the one ........ opps well i have guests and they are messing with my babylon 5 books

You know what the penalty for that is, "Stripped naked and thrown out the nearest airlock!"

LBH
Garibaldi, get out of that body immediatly :wink:
 

Mongoose Si

Mongoose
lastbesthope said:
From my knowledge, B4 was the biggest of the stations, the best armed, and the only one with engines to move it around. B5 was the smallest and built on the cheap, even then only because the Minbari jumped in with fundingso they could get the Commander veto.

LBH

Yes, that's correct. B4 was indeed the biggest and best sation - that's why it was the one that was taken back in time. If you are going to steal a space station, you may as well grab the best one time has to offer ;)

I don't recall anything about engines (but then my memory isn't what it used to be), but a mobile station would have been a great advantage in the last shadow war so you are probably correct.
 

Mongoose Gar

Mongoose
Thinking about it, it's likely that sections of B1 were reused for B2, bits of B2 were used for B3 (assuming the sabotage that destroyed each of them was not so devastating that it completely destroyed all the components). However, when B4 vanished, it left nothing to salvage, hence the shutdown of the Babylon Project until the Minbari put up the cash to build B5 from scratch.
 

frobisher

Mongoose
Ghost Dancer said:
I don't recall anything about engines (but then my memory isn't what it used to be), but a mobile station would have been a great advantage in the last shadow war so you are probably correct.

They were mentioned in the "In Valen's Name" graphic novel, specifically in the first part that was written by jms.
 

Vortex

Mongoose
I'm curious about what was written here on Babylon 1. Is there a source I don't know about which states that the red station we see blowing up in "In the beginning" is Babylon 1. Personally, I always guessed it was Babylon 3 and that the previous explosions we see are actually the basic structures of Babylon 1 & 2 being destroyed.

I agree that nothing specifically states this but I didn't see anything that specifically states otherwise. (Though I didn't see season 5, the last two movies or Crusade yet…)
 

lastbesthope

Mongoose
I always understood the red station to be the Babylon Station, maybe when the script books get that far I'll have a printed source from JMS himself to prove it.

LBH
 

Kizarvexis

Mongoose
From "War Without End: Part One" on the Lurker's Guide to Babylon 5. Questions to jms are in italics and everything else in quotes is jms' answers.

Why didn't the Shadows destroy B5 before it went online?
B5 wasn't destroyed because it wasn't the one that would be taken back. Yes, the prior stations would've looked more like B4 but they were sabotaged *very* early in the construction process. You'll learn why he didn't want Garibaldi along next ep.

The B1-B3 sabotages had nothing at all to do with the B4 situation; it was just done by forces opposed to the very notion of the Babylon Project.

The first 3 Babylon stations never got much past the very earliest stages of construction, just some hull elements, that sort of thing, nothing that could be recognized. Other forces took them out, mainly for political reasons.

How did the Shadows know about Babylon 4?
Well, if the Minbari had records of B4's visual look, given that the Shadows are advanced, would they not also have the potential to recognize it for what it was once it was nearing completion from their own records?

Did the Minbari agree to help fund B5 because they knew about B4?
No, because if you remember, even Delenn didn't know where B4 came from until she came to B5, well after completion.

From "War Without End: Part Two".

Did B4 have more firepower than B5?
Yeah, B4 had more firepower, and it had one thing B5 doesn't...engines that can move it forward if necessary.

Kizarvexis
 

saundby

Mongoose
Resurrecting the thread to mention that I'm having some fun with the earlier stations' designs in my campaign.

I've made Babylon Station an "Island 3" O'Neill colony type. According to comments elsewhere it failed due to an infrastructure failure, so I have it tearing itself apart before any of a number of conspirators manages it. This enters into my campaign as I have the "agricultural cylinders" as prefab station components for B1 which happened to make the perfect means for delivering conspirators & equipment. Among the tasks my players have is ongoing salvage of B-1 through B-3 parts to help stretch B-5s budget.

B-2 was to be an O'Neill "Sunflower", and B-3 would have been a "Stanford Torus" IMC. Each with their own interesting bits.

The High Frontier
and Heppenheimer's Colonies in Space have been great resources.
 
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