EA 3rd age weak?

[CratZ]

Im starting to think EA 3rd age is the weakest faction in the entire game. I often find my fleet obliterated round 2 or 3 and I have only scratched my enemy. ( yes I know Im not the best player)

There just isnt really any dmg outside those beams. Nova is just a joke really and the beams arent good enough to win the game. I mean Im lucky if Im able to beam away even anything as big as a skirmish ship with my beams concentrated while its common I lose as much as 2 ini sinks/round.

Interceptors are also a joke. They maybe help against 1-3 hits and thats it.

Hyperion is a useless one beam wonder really and seldom does more than 4 dmg/round

Omega the big beast! doesnt kill S***! my beams do around 6 dmg/round on average. that doesnt even kill a patrol ship...

Yea i have t-bolts... sadly most of them are always stuck in dogfight with enemy fighters. The rest do 1-2 dmg

The entire fleet just seems to work so that 40% of the points is the fleet and rest is just useles ini sinks that serve no other purpose at all. And by the time my ini sinks are dead i havent really destroyed much anything.

How are you supposed to win with EA? what did I miss. Ive already decided I wont even paint my EA. The fleet just isnt worth even a paintjob in my eyes.

 

[katadder]

lol I love EA 3rd age, get the best of all worlds with some older variants still around supported by new designs. avengers at raid add to your fighter compliment that a crusade list just cant have unless taking a posiedon which 3rd age can take anyway. and omegas are better than orestes too. you still get artemis at skirmish and the hyperion although fragile has a nasty amount of beam dice on a fairly fast and manouvrable ship.

 

[Da Boss]

Who are you playing, what level?

Focuss on a style that you like - if you enjoy fighters get an Avenger or two.

have you got a Warlock - they are very powerful War level ships - get one

If you don;'t like boresight (who does ) either join a proper race - like the Centauri :wink: or use a non boresight fleet.

Avengers, Explorer, Nova, Omega Pulse, Olympus, get in amongst them and fire lots and lots of guns

 

[Lord David the Denied]

EA 3rd age is far from weak. I've had my fragrant Centauri backside handed to me by Triggy's (awesome player, it has to be said) 3rd age fleet twice so far, and I've only played him twice...

They have nasty beams if you can get them on target, all double damage, and the Warlock's beam is triple damage! Missile racks are killers if loaded for the opponent, very customisable weapon - ok you don't get as many as 3rd age, but they're there and dangerous. Some nice skirmish units, the Nova is far from a joke when you've seen its broadsides in action, and you have fighters coming out the wazzoo.

It really sounds to me like you're rolling really, really badly and probably not making the best choices in game. I do the same thing, you just need practice and experience to get better at tactics. I assure you, 3rd age EA can win against any opponent.

 

[Omnipotent]

He is playing Vree, Crusade age, Dilgar and Centauri...I play the two later ones.

The thing I find easy(playing against third age) is the fact that I can just "place" my ships in one of his arcs, and EA is in trouble, since I play races with mostly forward guns, well a few turrents on the Dilgars I can place most of my ships withing a single arc of a EA ship and still use all my guns, but ignore most of his weapons. I find it wierd that third age has alot of weapons in side arcs, and then oddly enough a good boresight forward, too often u have to choose one arc to use, and that is not good.

And if we tryies to split his ships then it is even easier for a squad of forward firing AD DD 15 inc, babies to blast em away since the EAs interceptors simply can´t stand the bounding.

Third age should be ok against Vree since EA ships have guns on all sides. EA against EA should also be a even match

The only ships I fear are the small ones, hermes is a b**tch(pardon my french . The olympos is also good...


I played my first games with the Centauri fleet, against Cratz, 6 point raid, and a game with a single ship from each PL below war(this was mostly a "test" game). I think I cripples my own Kutai in the later battle(failed an GC in an asteroid field), and lost a single Maximus in the first one game. While I pounded an Omega, hermes and Nova in the first two rounds of the first game, pretty much winning the game in round two.

of to get some sleep...

 

[Triggy]

Against Dilgar you have two real advantages - range and fighters. In a 5 FAP at Battle PL game, you can take a fleet like:

1 x Warlock
1 x Omega
1 x Avenger
1 x Explorer
3 x Olympus
2 x Hermes

or drop the Warlock Destroyer for another Omega Destroyers, three more Olympus Corvettes and 2 more Hermes Frigates (this is probably a better fleet but is a bit overkill on the number of initiative sinks).

With this fleet you can throw out 24 fighters (about 50-50 Aurora Starfurys:Thunderbolt Starfurys) that should easily be enough to overwhelm his line and discourage him from getting too close. To complement this you throw large numbers of beam dice and missiles out at over 20" (outranging his fleet), keeping the Explorer back to do your scouting for the missiles. By the time the Dilgar reach you, they should be 20% depleted and you should be aiming to kill the Jashakars first, Tikrits second and Targraths third. This firstly reduces initiative sinks but also takes out the ships with the highest damage:toughness ratio.

When the enemy gets close, your Warlock and Omega can still hang back (in a split formation, making a cross) and the rest of your fleet can manoeuvre round the edges of the combat (you really don't want to get drawn into the centre - this is your killing ground), maintaining aspect to keep the shots coming.

With any luck this should work quite well vs a manouevrable/fast Dilgar fleet (a heavy/assault Dilgar fleet plays quite differently). EA Third Age really do kick ass but they aren't a simple fleet to use well and their strengths are not that easy to maximise.

BTW, thanks David for the complement We need another match soon...

 

[Taran]

I don't know about that. I find them a very simple fleet to use effectively. Not so easy to get the most from, but possibly the easiest to use effectively. Very forgiving...

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Yeah, we do. I'll beat your damn earthers if it's the last thing I do in this life... :twisted:

 

[Omnipotent]

Against Dilgar you have two real advantages - range and fighters. In a 5 FAP at Battle PL game, you can take a fleet like:

1 x Warlock
1 x Omega
1 x Avenger
1 x Explorer
3 x Olympus
2 x Hermes

or drop the Warlock Destroyer for another Omega Destroyers, three more Olympus Corvettes and 2 more Hermes Frigates (this is probably a better fleet but is a bit overkill on the number of initiative sinks).

With this fleet you can throw out 24 fighters (about 50-50 Aurora Starfurys:Thunderbolt Starfurys) that should easily be enough to overwhelm his line and discourage him from getting too close. To complement this you throw large numbers of beam dice and missiles out at over 20" (outranging his fleet), keeping the Explorer back to do your scouting for the missiles. By the time the Dilgar reach you, they should be 20% depleted and you should be aiming to kill the Jashakars first, Tikrits second and Targraths third. This firstly reduces initiative sinks but also takes out the ships with the highest damage:toughness ratio.

When the enemy gets close, your Warlock and Omega can still hang back (in a split formation, making a cross) and the rest of your fleet can manoeuvre round the edges of the combat (you really don't want to get drawn into the centre - this is your killing ground), maintaining aspect to keep the shots coming.

With any luck this should work quite well vs a manouevrable/fast Dilgar fleet (a heavy/assault Dilgar fleet plays quite differently). EA Third Age really do kick ass but they aren't a simple fleet to use well and their strengths are not that easy to maximise.

BTW, thanks David for the complement We need another match soon...

LOL

Outrange a Dilgar fleet?

U do notice they have 24 ince missiles on practically every lvl, and fighters on raid=>

It is really hard for a EA player to try not getting hurt when u muster four Targraths(that is 8*4 missiles) an Ochlavitas(4 more missiles), few torpedo jashakars(4 more). If u want u can even get the Mankhat to add another 20 missiles with TD 28 range. This still leaves u a half battle point which u of course fill with a Garasoch. If u want u can change the jashakars to scouts and paint targets with.

Now that is 60 dices of missiles; 40 AD, DD, MOD and 20 AD, TD, MOD.

EA can counter with what? 2*6 AD, DD beams(if u go with two omegas). 3*2 missiles from the olympos. Two Hermes gives u 4, 20 inc missiles more.

Now that would give the EA player, 12 beam dices, 10 missile dices...wohoo :?

Two omegas, 5 olympos, and 4 hermes would give 12 AD beam, 18 missiles...And that is not even close to the LONG range firepower of the Dilgar missiles.

Not in a million years can I see EA third age win Dilgar in long range shooting. This proves another point, u do not want to get close with the Dilgar...lol u do not need too

If the EA comes close, then the Dilgar got more boltars then missiles with a minimum range of 10...the Tikrit and Mankhat are beasts that can kill ships in there own lvl by themselves.

I could imagine that Centauri would have problems against those fleet suggestions, but I then again if there are as much as one planet on a decent place on the map EA is in trouble with centauri up there arse in turn two.

 

[locarno24]

There just isnt really any dmg outside those beams. Nova is just a joke really and the beams arent good enough to win the game. I mean Im lucky if Im able to beam away even anything as big as a skirmish ship with my beams concentrated while its common I lose as much as 2 ini sinks/round.

Novas and pulse cannon omegas are good brawler ships - meaning that to be worth their cost relative to other ships they need to be firing two or more arcs at once. All power to engines! into the middle of the enemy fleet is one of the fastest ways to get people to break up close formation.....although be prepared for it to be a one-way trip.

Your dice rolls look to be rather unlucky. For reference, almost all of the ships at or around raid-priority for the races described are hull 5 without interceptors.

A 14-dice broadside from a Nova-class should generate 8 hits to a hull 5 target, which works out at about 9 damage. Double that if you manage to fire both broadside batteries at once.

A 4-dice heavy laser from a Hyperion-class should also look to do about 9 damage per shot regardless of armour - plus the for'ard plasma cannon and pulse cannon add another 5 or so if they're in range for a total of 14 on a hull 5 target.

The omega should be doing an impressive 13 damage per laser shot thanks to those cycling hits. Add in the heavy pulse cannon and it hurts like hell.



You do have the firepower. I will admit that bringing it to bear isn't easy thanks to boresight rules, but you have access to some very tough initiative sinks - novas, tantalus and pulse omegas as well as itty-bitty things like the hermes. The former are ships that can power into the middle of the enemy line spitting pulse fire every which way whilst the big laser ships hang back....or hang back to protect them, since it looks like most of the fleets you face are more manouvrable than you. If you can set up a crossfire of a couple of groups you'll do better than a single block of ships. Triggy's fleet is a very good one.




Interceptors are a joke. they stop 2-3 damage and then provide 1/6th protection after that. Still, 3rd age EA hulls don't actually need the interceptors; they're built like brick outbuildings and are amongst the toughest capital ships outside the Narn regime. Treat interceptors as a free gift; assume it's a permanent 6+ save and it should do ok (except against beam-happy crusade-era EA)

 

[Tolwyn]

I would suggest an early Era EA Fleet as it has the best chances of all EA lists to beat the Dilgar.

In an event at our gaming club the Dilgar proved deadly to every race they fought against. They simple outgunned every other race with missiles and bolters.

 

[CratZ]

YES the dilgar. This is the fun battle. I also first thought I had the advantage when it comes to long range firepower. 60+ AP DD missiles beg to differ.

I guess I have to fight a few more battles with EA but currently Im not very happy with the race at all

 

[Tolwyn]

8 Targraths, some Ochlavitas, a Scout and a Garasoch are very hard to beat. (nearly impossible)

 

[H]

YES the dilgar. This is the fun battle. I also first thought I had the advantage when it comes to long range firepower. 60+ AP DD missiles beg to differ.

I guess I have to fight a few more battles with EA but currently Im not very happy with the race at all

It takes time to perfect tactics, and ship selection. don't give up, the Dilgar ARE a tough race to play against, but you should do it. if you can get in their flanks or behind they are relatively weak.

 

[Joe_Dracos]

I'd have to say that I'm a fence sitter on this topic.

While Interceptors do add a valued defence, having more then two is HIGHLY redundant as it will have largely the same effect as one or two interceptors.

The Hyperion is a deadly vessel. They have earned a savage reputation and as a result are concidered Priority targets. This can be used to draw fire from your omega's or war level vessel.

The omega does seem to be missing something. It seems to have more forward and boresight punch then the side arc which is what EA is supposed to be. I'd Like to see more firepower devoted to its port and starboard personally.

T-bolts are good, but you need dog fighters to back them up and take out enemy fighters. Use your fighters in waves. Send the Arouras up first to thin out the enemy fighter fleet and follow up with the T-Bolts. Avengers are so good they are almost manditory. Always take one. ALWAYS.

Veriety is the spice of life. Every Raid or lower priority ship you have has potential to be a real pain in your opponents back side. I highly recomend a combination or Olympus and Artemis frigates. An oracle is always useful (cause of its scout ability). Use it on an artimes to twin-link its rail guns.

Here is my suggestion for your fleet composision for a 5 point Battle.

Omega Destroyer - 2 Araura, 2 T-Bolt
Omega Destroyer - 2 Aroura, 2 T-Bolt
Nova Dreadnought - 2 Aroura, 2 T-Bolt; Artemis Frigate; Artemis Frigate
Avenger Carrier - 4 Aroura, 4 T-Bolt; Olympus Corvette; Olympus Corvette
Hyperion cruiser - Aroura; Oracle Scout cruiser; Hermes Transport - Aroura; Hermes Transport - Aroura

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Thunderbolts are a match for Dilgar Thoruns in a dogfight. If you're using Omegas, Warlocks, Novae and an Avenger you won't be outnumbered on fighters.

 

[CZuschlag]

Omnipotent,

Remember that Anti-ship missiles are NOT MoD. This applies to Bolters and Pulsars only.

Otherwise....at 5 battle you're looking at something like 20 fighters or so vs 24, and while the EA has a +1 DFR on Starfuries vs. Thorun, the Dilgar have that funky fighter pentacon rule that can make some dogfight not even require a dice roll. They'll be able to mug some fighters with that pentacon if they win initiative. All in all, if the Dilgar has remembered to take a Garasoch, this'll likely be a push, or close enough you don't notice. What you're really missing is the opportunity to use your Thorun as interceptors, but c'est la vie.

I don't think any range but extreme is an answer to the Dilgar fleet, although, with Long Range missiles, if you were committed to doing it, you could. You would likely run out of board, if I had to make my guess. Otherwise, it's approximately 32 or so dice of ASMs, probably Jashakar-Vi or CAF redirected, at some unlucky Olympus. You don't need that many, you really only require 18 realistically if you bank on a scout redirect, so you may be able to roll CBDs and target a Olympus on turn 1, and a Hermes on turn 2, and repeat. If the Olympus CBDs, you'll need the full volley. I can't see the EA force as being able to reliably match, even against the woefully underbuilt Ochliavita.

The weapon that I fear in the 3rd Age EA armoury is the squadron of 4 Hyperions beamteaming. This is nasty. This stack, with primary guns alone, is typically worth at minimum 32/30 before reductions. In Armageddon, with scout redirects, it was worse. Ow! You need to initiative sink like crazy with this stack, but it's very tough. In the old days when Hermes had flash missiles, they were the perfect sink, and this fleet was locally briefly considered "broken".

Any race that can field something that, even for a short time, is considered broken, is most certainly not underpowered.

 

[Omnipotent]

yeah, apparently I got confused writing, the anti-ship missiles are not MOD of course...

 

[Triggy]

LOL

Outrange a Dilgar fleet?

U do notice they have 24 ince missiles on practically every lvl, and fighters on raid=>

It is really hard for a EA player to try not getting hurt when u muster four Targraths(that is 8*4 missiles) an Ochlavitas(4 more missiles), few torpedo jashakars(4 more). If u want u can even get the Mankhat to add another 20 missiles with TD 28 range. This still leaves u a half battle point which u of course fill with a Garasoch. If u want u can change the jashakars to scouts and paint targets with.

Even with four Targraths that's only seven hits against an Omega after its Interceptors or 13 with Scout backup (both on average) and this is only every other turn. Without MoD, this is perfectly reasonable against a Dilgar fleet as your two Omegas (same FAP cost) will almost destroy an entire Targrath in a single salvo of the two beams. Anyway, it's all about positioning, if you get it right, you can force the Dilgar player to have to shoot past you whilst you maintain aspect with your crossfire and side guns. You won't win the mid-range game but with an extra shot at long range and more guns in side/aft arcs and more/better fighters you'll be doing fine.

 

[alpha_construct]

Won't the Dilgar player use the Pentacon formation to move the Omegas first so they can't boresight? Or am I misunderstanding how the formation works?