DROW WAR BOOK III THE DARKEST HOUR QUESTIONS (Adrian!)

[quillion]

As always this book is just great and a joy to read!

Ok my players have just reached 20th level in the WLD and the next big encounter either a dragon or the worldeater (advanced colossal nightcrawler, nightshade), will put them to 21st level.

I have a few questions that are campaign specific for me.

One my party is Evil, having read the book I only see a major plot problem with them being evil

The heavenly host coming down and asking for help I have substituted the Devils for this as they don't want any one destroying what is their's: the party has a powerful red wizard, archmage summoner and a warlock, and a priest of gaurgoth the outcast devil god of FR so I think this will fit very well. (I plan on switching ot the legion imponderable with a host of dieties my party worships)

1. What should I do with The Ivory Child, my party will not even blink at disintegrating the little girl and all her attending objects?

2. What are the Ivory child’s stats? Does anything other than being good protect her? I can't imagine Bodiless AO did not put some protective gear or spell shields, contingencies around her etc...

3. I have a party of 8 powergaming players, so I am doubling the # of non-npc encounters since I assume this was playtested with 4 iconic characters (per the WotC online recommendation for players beyond the standard 4). Is this correct?

4. What are Bodiless Ao's public Attitudes towards Other Factions? I would just love to hear them, as the senile demilich is hilarious. (great job by the way, be proud)

5. Is there a suggestion for what the other factions are doing while the players are dealing with only one of the issues presented?. ( I understand the idea that the party makes the best agents, but they are not going to buy that when other can be raised an they do have an agenda, ala my players are lawful and evil) It says they are investigating other worlds and artifacts but not which ones or what they learn, they may not be doing anything but it sure looks like it.


6. Why are the DC’s for players to determine if they have heard about any of the artifacts all bardic knowledge checks so low?, Why it is only a bardic knowledge check (if for some stupid reason some one played a bard) and not also some other knowledge. Why no DCs of the planes being attacked. These are epic level characters: full ranks +23 minimum in knowledge planes, add +10 from their stat, add +25 from moment of prescience (for when you really want to know something), aid another +2 being assured that I have forgotten some bonus we are talking an AVERAGE of DC 60 at 21st level. This one is minor I just was annoyed by it. (amended: the information about the great machine is a knowledge history check DC 40, low but not horribly so.)

7. Why is there no discussion of the Commune or contact other plane type spells and what The Powers The Be will or will not say about the planes in question, the drow, or the dark itself, (usually commune knows nothing about artifacts and I could say that She is shielding her special drow, and the dark is immune, but even that information would be something) but I was curious that there was nothing about the planes except for the dead gods skull, which I can assume they could just get the info from a commune spell (perhaps routed to the Legion of the Realm Imponderable), nor if they decide to use this on as someone as Epettu Banph

8. Why would anyone (dead gods included) think that the planes of Muzziomone and Torrendo are in danger, Muzziomone may have BEEN in danger but not for a few weeks time, and Torrendo has never been in danger. Yes they have all the requirements for being in danger but they are not IN danger. I would expect gods would know this.

9. Is there any recommendation for which factions should accompany which missions, and what would happen like “The Thenody in Velvet goes to lunch in Muzzimone and tastes like pork”

10. I have pretty good Idea of what Find the Path will do in most of the dungeon style setting and I really like the layout, (agian great job Adrian Bott) as it makes it very efficient for the use of this spell. I was wondering about how it would effect the Labyrith of Trial and how anyone would suggest would dealing with Find the Path (aka ruin the adventure) as I don't ban PHB spells.

11. What happens if the player characters don’t want to destroy the artifacts and keep them for themselves, what happens if they try to use these items at the Final Shore.

12. Why are there no Knowledge DCs for the Eye of Igrath? I understand that Bodiless Ao knows nothing but he is a relative idiot (for epic) having the same bonus (+34) to Knowledge Arcana as the current 20th level Red Wizard Archmage PC in my campaign. (Yes he is powerful but he is only 21 HD so his ranks cap out making him not a smart as you think he is (a problem with using the default demilich stats); If it is something (only) the gods know why would a basic common spell such as commune or contact other plane not reveal anything.

13. Why are their no stats for Lord Fnut and how is his name pronounced (is it Lord Fut or lord Nut or lord F-Nut or lord Fnewt or lord Newt?)

14. When dismantling the planner bomb which resolves first the tanmpering spell or the detination. Example Mage’s disjunction the character rolls the required percentage to destroy an artifact.

15. Death of the World explanation: Huh? How do the players see this and would the destruction fo the plane not destroy them as well? Does a Prismatic Sphere protect you, Otiluke’s telekentic sphere? What would?

16. Assuming your 26-27th level when the Steel never Sleeps a DC 80 disables the planner bomb. Being conservative lets say 26th level +29 from ranks, +13 from stat, +25 from MOP, +2 from aid another as just a throw off, a DC 80 50% of the time. Not bad 50% chance to blow up the world, was it your plan to be at this kind of percentage?

17. There are no roleplay notes for the anaxiam (decimator engines) as the only intelligent children of the god that is the great machine. I thought this was lacking.

18. If The Detonation Point from What Dread Hand goes the multiverse is destroyed regardless of the players escaping to the ebon egg correct? (other than the dues ex machine intervention of the legion)

19. I must be dense but it seems to me that most of the prophecies are useful for parts I and II except for the cryptic mutterings of Thuz am I wrong could you give me the short bus version if I am wrong.


As always this book is just great and a joy to read!
this is just me.

 

[Cavalorn]

As always this book is just great and a joy to read!

Elvis voice: thankyouverymuch.

1. What should I do with The Ivory Child, my party will not even blink at disintegrating the little girl and all her attending objects?

If Bodiless Ao even thinks she's in danger, he'll stack defensive spells on her like there's no tomorrow.

More importantly, the party can't simply go charging into the Conclave and zapping whoever they want to zap. There's a treaty in place. Hygrave and his Huntsmen will be the first in line to kick the stuffing out of anyone who tries to use the gathering as an excuse to up their XP total. Also, bear in mind the likes of Lady Myonatix - 'oh the poor dear innocent! we must find a way to free her!'

2. What are the Ivory child’s stats?

She's a level 1 commoner. With a demilich's phylactery inside her ribcage.

I can't imagine Bodiless AO did not put some protective gear or spell shields, contingencies around her etc...

Absolutely. However, that kind of thing is tactically reactive - I can't easily list what sort of spells he would place on her without knowing what dangers he thinks she'll be facing. You've got access to his spells and capabilities, so take it from there. Remember, he's a demilich. They are NOT easy to take down.

I have a party of 8 powergaming players, so I am doubling the # of non-npc encounters since I assume this was playtested with 4 iconic characters (per the WotC online recommendation for players beyond the standard 4). Is this correct?

Mark Gedak can answer that question for you better than I can, as his group did the playtesting. For my part, it was certainly balanced (challenge ratings and so on) for that size of party, yes.

4. What are Bodiless Ao's public Attitudes towards Other Factions?

Let's see now.

Aerial Demons: A circus! A circus! I do love a circus! But where are all the pretty ponies? Hurrah for cotton candy and flatulence! You, madam, have too many arms. I consider arms mere vanity. I myself have none.

Conclave of Ashfar: I know something you don't know. And I'm not telling. I'll give you a clue. It's bigger than a breadbox. Do you want another clue? Well, you can't have one. We're fresh out. Sorry. No clues for YOU!

Court of Jasmeera: Madam, you think you are all that, but you are not. Who do you think you are, striding about intimidating people with your navel like that? Does your father know you're here? Now put something on, for heaven's sake, you'll catch your death.

Hygrave's Huntsmen: Smile! Go on. Smile. Bet you can't. Did I see a little smile there? A teeny weeny little smile? Does someone need a tickle? Ahhh, go on! Smile for Uncle Ao! Hmph. It takes more muscles to frown than it does to smile, you know. Look at me! I smile all the time! That's because I've got no lips! It's wonderful!

Legion of the Realm Imponderable: (*bonk bonk* on the armour) Anyone in there? Gerald? Matilda? Hurry up! Some of us are waiting to go, you know. I'm dying for a Jimmy Riddle, me. It's not right to keep an old lady waiting. I'm five hundred and twenty-three, you know.

Philosophers of Arithmea: You think. You think therefore you are. But maybe you're not. Maybe you only think you are. How do you like that, eh? Well, try this on for size. Perhaps I only think you are. And you are because I say so, because if you were, then I wouldn't. Look what you've done. Now I have a headache.

Planespiders: You're jolly decent hard working people, you are. Keep it up. Doing a wonderful job, no matter what anyone says. If it was up to me to keep the universe held together with stuff that came out of MY bottom, I'm sure I'd not be anywhere near as good at it as you. Chin chin. Top hole. Cheerio.

Retinue of Lady Myonatix: SHINY!

Sylvan Covenant: Once there was a hunter bold, and a hunter bold was he. Sing hey-fol-diddle-diddle-wack-diddle O, something in the green wood something something bonny O. Oh, damn, how does it go from there? Tirra lirra lirra and a bunny up the figgin O. All in the green wood shady O. Hurrah!

Threnody in Velvet: Is that your real hair? Can I touch it?

It says they are investigating other worlds and artifacts but not which ones or what they learn, they may not be doing anything but it sure looks like it.

Fair point. The trouble with that section is that I expect players to take it at face value if their GM tells them that the other Conclave members are doing their own research. If, however, that's seen as the characters being expected to believe that what the NPCs are telling them, then it might be a bit more problematic.

If you like, I can come up with some additional artefacts and legends that the rest of the Conclave would have been researching. Would that help?

This one is minor I just was annoyed by it.

That's something that I would expect to be caught in playtesting. To be honest, I don't much like players going without any information, but that's just a personal stance.

The skill was Bardic Lore because that pertains to legendary items such as artefacts; it's more a matter of keeping to gaming convention than anything else. Don't feel bound by that.

7. Why is there no discussion of the Commune or contact other plane type spells and what The Powers The Be will or will not say about the planes in question, the drow, or the dark itself,

It wasn't spelled out, but the whole issue of divination in general is a sticky one when it comes to epic level adventuring. If you can just cast a spell to find out an answer, then there's not much in the way of investigation and research to do, nor is it possible to have blind leads or deception.

The great golden get-out here is the Planequake. Communication between the planes is unreliable, while everything is in a state of flux. The point is to give the GM something he/she can use to justify why the players can't just ASK.

Yes they have all the requirements for being in danger but they are not IN danger. I would expect gods would know this.

Even gods cannot say what is going to happen. The risk to Muzziomone and Torrendo comes from their location, on the planar 'fault lines'. Being in that position during a Planequake puts you in danger anyway, no matter from which direction the quake comes.

9. Is there any recommendation for which factions should accompany which missions, and what would happen like “The Thenody in Velvet goes to lunch in Muzzimone and tastes like pork”

Ahem. Yes, that would be rather unfortunate, wouldn't it.

So much depends on how the players chose to interact with the factions, and where they've made friends (and enemies), that it's very hard to make recommendations on a mission by mission basis. However, I'd expect the Huntsmen would want to go and assault Azrique, the Covenant would like to see the forests of Muzziomone, the Aerial Demons would have a vested interest in sailing the skies of chaos seeking for the Eye, and Bodiless Ao would be a tad curious about the Banestaff. Bear in mind that this is all story-based, and has nothing to do with the groups' powers.

I was wondering about how it would effect the Labyrith of Trial and how anyone would suggest would dealing with Find the Path (aka ruin the adventure) as I don't ban PHB spells.

Bear in mind that the whole fortress is changeable, by the power of the Baneliness's will. That could play havoc with a Find the Path spell.

What happens if the player characters don’t want to destroy the artifacts and keep them for themselves

That's rather up to the other members of the Conclave. What I was aiming for was a situation in which damage limitation happens through the NPCs, rather than GM fiat. So, if they hang on to (for example) the Banestaff, then the other members are going to be nervous. They might close ranks and attempt to 'persuade' the Players to destroy it.

But don't feel the Players mustn't do this or that thing. The artefacts have statistics because I thought it entirely likely that the players WOULD want to steal them. That Ebon Ring is a nice bit of bling, innit?

what happens if they try to use these items at the Final Shore.

As far as I can tell, they'd work there just the same as anywhere else. If they try to destroy the plane, then all they'd end up doing is destroying the little bit of sandy stuff they're standing on. It would be just like falling into the Void.

12. Why are there no Knowledge DCs for the Eye of Igrath?

Because it's a who, and not a what; also, because the only people who know about the Eye are those who were around at the time.

If it is something (only) the gods know why would a basic common spell such as commune or contact other plane not reveal anything.

This is a consequence of having a default campaign world. In the campaign in which the Drow War is set, the only entities who were around in Igrath's time were the Elven Gods - and in the book, it is those Gods who pass on the information about the Eye.

How you handle this will have to depend on who you are making the Legions of the Realm Imponderable into in your campaign world.

13.Why are their no stats for Lord Fnut and how is his name pronounced (is it Lord Fut or lord Nut or lord F-Nut or lord Fnewt or lord Newt?)

Because he's exactly like all the other default philosophers. They're a fairly uniform lot.

It's pronounced FFFNutt. Like 'phut'.

This is going to have to go in two posts - part 2 to follow!

 

[quillion]

Elvis voice: thankyouverymuch.

You are quite welcome, and thank you for taking the time to address my petty concerns.

“More importantly, the party can't simply go charging into the Conclave and zapping whoever they want to zap”

I was more concerned about them doing this at Twist in the Tail: Carpe Noctem. Right now I am looking at damage reduction of some kind and spell resistance at a minimum.

“They are NOT easy to take down.”

Yes but they still only get 1 move, one standard and one free action a round vs the 8 times that number of actions with the players.

:

4. What are Bodiless Ao's public Attitudes towards Other Factions

LMAFAO: Never ever read this while you are at work, people just look at you like your nuts. Fall down funny thanks so much.

I keep thinking of just putting up a thread called the sayings of Bodiless Ao.

“Fair point. The trouble with that section is that I expect players to take it at face value if their GM tells them that the other Conclave members are doing their own research.”

Problem is there is no tangible results of this research only the players actually produce results (though for the most parts dead ends).

If, however, that's seen as the characters being expected to believe that what the NPCs are telling them, then it might be a bit more problematic.

Exactly, who is going to take Mr Hecke at his word.

If you like, I can come up with some additional artefacts and legends that the rest of the Conclave would have been researching. Would that help?

I was planning on doing a plane, an artifact, a prophecy, and a npc (a falsly accused responsible party, Bodliess Ao's mad god maybee) with one of those actually producing a clue or result that could help the party along. Any help would be appreciated, help from the Author of the book is overly appreciated.

“To be honest, I don't much like players going without any information, but that's just a personal stance.”

Yes, I agree. I have thought of giving some of the info out based on multiple DC levels like the Lore is done in the Wotc books DC 40 gives the first paragraph each paragraph after that adds +5 to the DC.

“Don't feel bound by that.”

I did not it, just point out that there are things beyond bardic knowledge like plain old knowledge 

“If you can just cast a spell to find out an answer, then there's not much in the way of investigation and research to do, nor is it possible to have blind leads or deception…... The point is to give the GM something he/she can use to justify why the players can't just ASK. “

I would really have to STRONGLY disagree here. I have seen designs that REQUIRE that you use of Divination magics as your tool for research and investigation. You still have to ask the right questions. Everything must be phrased as yes or no.

Commune states that

“the answers are correct within the limits of the entity’s knowledge. “Unclear” is a legitimate answer, because powerful beings of the Outer Planes are not necessarily omniscient........ The entities contacted structure their answers to further their own purposes.”

Giving a general guideline you already give guidelines that powerful beings like the gods don’t know exactly what is going on, defining what the Legion knows and does not know would have been a greater help (I would assume they don’t know as much as the dead god of creation), knowing their agenda helps to a large extent.

Contact other plane:
I am planning on establishing a penalty to the roll of contact other plane based on what knowledge was necessary and a bonus for the astral plane. I find contact other plane to be really poorly designed and I was thinking The Dark or She could highjack the spell giving dangerous and misleading answers.

This way you have deception and investigation Commune gives one answer and contact other plane gives another answer. One must be true.

Bear in mind that this is all story-based, and has nothing to do with the groups' powers.

Yes this is what I was looking for as the factions might go there independently. Thanks again.

That Ebon Ring is a nice bit of bling, innit?
One ring to rul…. I mean its’ a nice bit of nibelung… I mean a white gold wielder…. Yes bling good.

How you handle this will have to depend on who you are making the Legions of the Realm Imponderable into in your campaign world.

Gargauth The Hidden Lord, Asmodeus Lord of the Nine Hells, Hoar the Hand of Retribution, have not decided on the last two yet. Might be Wakeen the golden, and possibly Velasharoon the Vaunted. dont' know beyond that yet.

Again thanks so much awaiting with great anticipation part II

 

[quillion]

This is going to have to go in two posts - part 2 to follow!

Looks left
Looks right

No large pole sticking out of the ground with a sign that says Part II

:evil:

 

[Cavalorn]

Sorry, been busy. Will get back to it ASAP, promise!

 

[quillion]

Np

My party will probably start in on this in 3 weeks, they just opened up the vault to the worldeater in the World's Largest Dungonen (a 50 HD nightcrawler).

 

[quillion]

looks left, looks right, looks left again

a strong piece of timber, metal, or the like, set upright as a support, a point of attachment, a place for displaying notices, etc.
2. Furniture. one of the principal uprights of a piece of furniture, as one supporting a chair back or forming one corner of a chest of drawers. Compare stump (def. 11).
3. Papermaking. a stack of 144 sheets of handmolded paper, interleaved with felt.
4. Horse Racing. a pole on a racetrack indicating the point where a race begins or ends: the starting post.
5. the lane of a racetrack farthest from the infield; the outside lane. Compare pole1 (def. 4).
6. –verb (used with object) 7. to affix (a notice, bulletin, etc.) to a post, wall, or the like.
8. to bring to public notice by or as by a poster or bill: to post a reward.
9. to denounce by a public notice or declaration: They were posted as spies.
10. to publish the name of in a list: to post a student on the dean's list.
11. to publish the name of (a ship) as missing or lost.
12. to placard (a wall, fence, etc.) with notices, bulletins, etc.: The wall was posted with announcements.
13. to put up signs on (land or other property) forbidding trespassing:: The estate has been posted by the owner.

nope none of those
oh wait here it is

14. Computers. to send (a message) to a newsgroup.
–verb (used without object)


Ok where is me post lol :lol:

 

[quillion]

?

 

[quillion]

??