Drazi what do you think?

[Kosh127]

Ok since I seem to have an arch enemy on the forum I was wondering what people think about the drazi ClawEagle. I have a strong feelings on the ship but I am going to wait a little to post it.

Is it to strong to weak, needs to be a 2 for 1, needs more traits, or do you guys think its right on?

 

[Grunvald]

If you mean the ClawEagle, never seen it played and stat's wise seems pretty rubbish, no dodge like the majority of other Drazi ships and weak guns.

Idea is nice but it lacks any punch, either a few more troops for the boarding or a slightly better gun!

 

[katadder]

that was one ship i wanted to be a 2fer. should probably have dodge really at least.

 

[Da Boss]

have to February to fix all these little could have beens :wink:

 

[Kosh127]

Da Boss your 100% right. I just want to get it out there so it does get fixed.

I believe the idea behind the ship is great. Its a one of a kind. The problems with it are the gun is a joke, and thats fine because its just a giant breaching pod. It is the only ship in the fleet that is not agile or atleast below battle. The ship has no dodge and its the only one without at least below battle. The damage is the worst in the game for a patrol (1 for 1) without a dodge. Plus it has to pass a command check to do its thing. Makes sences becasue of what it is but then balance it with something else.

 

[Harry Lonsdale]

I'd like to see the Drazi get their Aggression bonus on the CQ check to latch on (someone else had suggested that here shortly after 2e came out).

 

[Ripple]

I tend to agree, the lack of traits that seem obvious really holds it back from being a good buy.

Ripple

 

[Burger]

I've used them a few times. They are not very effective at actually doing their job: too fragile, and not really enough troops to attack the big ships. What they are good at however, is distraction! Whenever your enemy sees a Claweagle closing in on his big ships, he immediately diverts all firepower their way - allowing your other ships to attack unhindered. So they do have a use!

And yes, they should definitely get the aggression bonus, and be 2fer!

 

[Foxmeister]

Da Boss your 100% right. I just want to get it out there so it does get fixed.

Given all the talk about potential ship fixes that we *know* are not going to be addressed in P&P (at this point in time anyway), just getting it out there isn't necessarily enough!

Regards,

Dave

 

[Kosh127]

Just because it might not get fixed is a terrible reason not to talk about it or hope of might get fixed.

 

[Foxmeister]

Just because it might not get fixed is a terrible reason not to talk about it or hope of might get fixed.

I didn't say it wasn't worth discussion, just that "getting it out there" doesn't mean it will get fixed, which is what your post implied.

Regards,

Dave

 

[katadder]

have suggested dodge, 2fer and drazi agression for putting in next test pack

 

[Da Boss]

there we go - a good start

 

[Foxmeister]

have suggested dodge, 2fer and drazi agression for putting in next test pack

IMHO, that would be rather too much.

Assuming for the moment that breaching pods are "balanced" at 1 Patrol point for 4 flights, what would be the point of ever getting them if you can have 2 ships for the same cost which would have:

a) Much higher survivability
b) 50% more troops (6 vs 4)
c) Twice the speed (12 vs 6)

Regards,

Dave

 

[katadder]

breaching pods are not hull 4, get to move after all other ships and dont need opposed CQ checks to board

 

[Foxmeister]

breaching pods are not hull 4, get to move after all other ships and dont need opposed CQ checks to board

Yes, but in addition to the positives I've already listed for the Claweagles:

Breaching pods don't have any weapons
Breaching pods only require 1 hit to destroy them
Breaching pods are far more vulnerable to e-mines
Breaching pods are far more vulnerable to fighters
Breaching pods are vulnerable to AF

Regards,

Dave

 

[Burger]

Apples and oranges. Breaching pods would be better against some opponents, Claweagles better against others. And you forgot to mention that Claweagles are init sinks
The Claweagle is somewhat of a Drazi speciality so I don't see a real problem with it being better than taking wings of breaching pods.

But I agree, 2fer, dodge and aggression bonus is too much. Pick two of them (I prefer 2fer and aggression).

 

[Foxmeister]

Apples and oranges. Breaching pods would be better against some opponents, Claweagles better against others. And you forgot to mention that Claweagles are init sinks

Actually I think the comparison is rather apposite. The Claweagle *is* essentially a jumped up breaching pod since its main "weapon" is the troops it carries and not its beam. With the changes that Katadder has suggested, I'm not seeing any compelling reasons to take breaching pods over Claweagle. The main disadvantage of the Claweagle over breaching pods is the contested CQ check, but with Drazi Aggression that is less of an issue against most opponents, and the Claweagle is an order of magnitude more survivable and faster anyway so are *far* more likely to get a boarding opportunity in the first place.

The Claweagle is somewhat of a Drazi speciality so I don't see a real problem with it being better than taking wings of breaching pods.

The point is balance - it is either balanced or it is not. Whilst there is a degree of latitude here, what is being suggested here is far too much in favour of the Claweagle - I can just see it being used in swarms.

But I agree, 2fer, dodge and aggression bonus is too much. Pick two of them (I prefer 2fer and aggression).

I think there should be less 2fers, not more of them! My preferred number of 2fers in the game is zero!

Regards,

Dave

 

[Burger]

Apples and oranges. Breaching pods would be better against some opponents, Claweagles better against others. And you forgot to mention that Claweagles are init sinks

Actually I think the comparison is rather apposite. The Claweagle *is* essentially a jumped up breaching pod since its main "weapon" is the troops it carries and not its beam.

Yes, its role is very similar to a breaching pod. But its implementation is totally different. It is an aux craft, therefore rules-wise they work very differently. Against EA or Minbari, for example, breaching pods would be useless due to high AF. Against ISA or Psi Corps, Claweagles would be a poor choice (low AF, opponent has +1 CQ).

I think there should be less 2fers, not more of them! My preferred number of 2fers in the game is zero!

True. I'd be happy to go with dodge and aggression then, and maybe an extra troop.

 

[Foxmeister]

Against ISA or Psi Corps, Claweagles would be a poor choice (low AF, opponent has +1 CQ).

Speed 12 vs Speed 6 - those breaching pods aren't a threat to anything in the ISA list, plus ISA have accurate weapons so I don't see breaching pods ever getting anywhere near a boarding attempt. At least the Claweagles stand a chance.

Similarly most "core" Psi-Corp ships have reasonable AF (AF4 on FC and Hunter, AF6 on Mothership), and 10"+ range weapons with reasonable AD so they will stand a good chance of shooting down any breaching pods before they get within 6", hull 6 or no, and that's before you bring fighters into the equation. So again, IMHO, the Claweagle is a better choice *regardless* of CQ levels because it stands much better chance of getting into a position to board in the first place.

Having said all that, I agree that the Claweagle isn't much cop in it's present incarnation and could benefit from a little extra.

I'd up its hit points and crew scores, give it Drazi Aggression, and an extra troop.

Regards,

Dave