Disappointing Del Rey Sales

[terryallenuk]

Over at Conan.com one of the staff members met up with Steve Saffel of Del Rey at the Marcon convention recently . Part of the conversation , along with my thoughts are posted below , with the permission of , and indeed encouragement of the writer as there is some concern on current sales which of course could have an impact on future books

For the full message you can check out http://tinyurl.com/cvwa3

Terry


QUOTE(Kane @ May 31 2005, 05:55 AM)
" This past weekend I had the chance to spend some time with Mr. Steve Saffel of Del Rey . One of the topics was the sales of the current trades. Seems that while the first Conan book sold very well that cannot be said for the later books. The second Conan and Solomon Kane have sold a 3rd less. So while it sounds clichéd, we do need to do our part to help get the word out.

You see, Mr. Saffel would like to get more of Howard's stories out in trade paperback editions. However publishing is a business. If the sales are not there it is hard for him to convince his bosses to put the money into it. More on this later. One other matter is the degree he downplays his involvement in getting Howard published. He's quick to praise Rusty Burke and Wandering Star for getting the material put together.

Mr. Saffel would like to get more Howard out to us. The problem is that REH produced a large amount of material. So please, think about what you would like to see back in print and reply. It just might help future choices. "


TERRY : The sales are disappointing , hopefully the 3rd Conan volume will do better though I imagine Bran will possibly be the least popular . What does this bode for the future ?

Well so far we just have the first Del Rey Conan Hardcover announced . That's on my list certainly . I just hope that the sales justify DR carrying on with the others.

I hope that , at least , DR do a deal with WS to reprint the Kull book in the same format . My worry is that this will be the final " known " character . If the sales are slipping will DR want to take a risk on other works , especially with books from Bison and Wildside in the market.

If DR don't do a deal with WS will that put pressure on WS to look at what they are doing in the future . I'm sure some of the books they have planned won't sell as well as their other books. By the sound of it Steve wants to get more books out there . Perhaps a formal tie-up with WS to come up with an overall strategy for the future planning wise so that DR aren't just tagging along on WS's coat-tails ?

What can we do ? Well spread the word everyone . If you've not yet bought any of the books get them now and encourage others to do the same . I'll be copying this to the other forums I'm on .

But do DR need to look at the format of the books . I , and I'm sure most here , think they are terrific . But we are the converted . For " Mr Average Fantasy Reader " are they too nice and classy looking ? Would we be better with a more barbaric looking Conan cover ala Frazetta or Nord ? The Gollancz Conan Chronicles covers , although poorly drawn , IMO , are possibly more what readers expect a Conan cover to look like . Should the Solomon Kane cover look more like a rip-off of Jackman/Van Helsing ? Should the books be normal paperback size ? Just a few thoughts , the contents are right of course , is the presentation ?

I also think that , however good a job Steve Jones did on the Chronicles , as well as others who helped him at times , that it's about time a deal was struck between CPI , WS , DR and Gollancz to get the DR books on bookshelves _world-wide_.

Terry

 

[René]

I own a copy of Solomon Kane from del rey: it is - besides of the high quality of the stories - a real good work with fantastic illustrations. And a wonderful inspiration for a CONAN GM!

Why I won't buy del rey CONAN books is easy to explain: I bought the Gollancz 2 vol. edition at a time, when only the first del rey volume was published - I wanted to have all the CONAN stories at once.

Bran Mak Morn from del rey is on my list: the only Bran story I know from Chaosium's Nameless Cults (= REH's Cthulhu stories) is excellent - combined with the atmospheric del rey illustrations it will be pure joy to read the book!

Regarding other collections of REH's works I think the market will indeed not be the most promising, since Bison AND Wildside press already release the western / boxing / crusade / detective / weird stories of REH, so del rey would be the third (and latest) company on the market.

 

[Arkobla Conn]

Another thing to consider....I, like many of you already OWN all the conan stories. I have bought the two Conan volumes and will round it out with the third ONLY to support Del Rey. I'm not a fan of the other characters, however. Conan is the character for me.

 

[Raven Blackwell]

I already own all the volumes Del Ray has put out, but I think I can understand why Del Ray is having trouble with these books. REH's stories are ones that provoke thinking and have a subtle flavour best enjoyed by those who see the greater truths hinted at by the stories ala Lovecraft. In this day age, subtlety and intelligence, not mention literacy, aren't high on people's lists of desirable qualities. I've heard complaints of 'drow babes in chainmail corsets' dominating the market, but consider that the majority of the fanatasy audience is younger and more hormone driven, that's what is going to sell, whether we like or not.

Raven, whose choice of reading material is getting a lot older than she is....

 

[Raven Blackwell]

Speaking of older stories, anyone for a taste for lengthy pieces of work may like the adventures written by H. Rider Haggard. Haggard had a lot of the qualities of storytelling that Howard used- lost cities, tribes and treasure, the occasional hint of the supernatural, a main charcater with a dark philosphy. [So much similarity that the last half of Conan and the Treasure of Python is a blatant rip-off of Haggard's King Solomon's Mines] His work She has a facinating character at the heart of it- a ruthless immortal sorceress that want to conquer the world, but who isn't wholly evil. She'd make a interesting ally/enemy for a Conan campaign- a lesser evil working against rival greater evils.

In any case most of Haggard's works aren't much in print though I've find a lot of them in college libraries or through the American Interlibrary Loan system. Since Haggard travelled extensively through Africa in his [19th century] time, anyone looking for material to help set the mood for a Black Kingdoms campaign won't be disappointed. Note that Haggard's supernatural elements are far more subtle than Howards though- no ramapaging screaming demons here I fear. 8)

Raven

 

[VincentDarlage]

I buy two copies of the Del Rey editions (three if you count the Sci Fi book club editions): One to sit nicely on my bookshelves; the other is a reading copy that I do not have to worry about as I flip through it to research the RPG sourcebooks. The Sci Fi bookclub editions I buy so I can do research if I am travelling without having to worry about the cover getting bent and/or destroyed.

Del Rey has my full support and I will buy three copies of any REH material they put out.

I have the Donald Grant editions of most stories, the Baum books, the Ace/Lancer books, the Gollancz editions and the Chaosium book, as well as others, yet I will still buy any new editions I find.

 

[Jason Durall]

In my opinion, the reason for the declining sales is entirely the fault of Del Rey.

Regardless of the quality of the material and the publications themselves, the subsequent releases have lacked any significant promotion, as opposed to the first volume which was hyped quite widely, well in advance of release.

I saw considerable pre-release promotion for the first volume, outside of the usual Conan-related forums and venues. The second volume was almost a stealth release, with little to herald its publication. Solomon Kane received even less hype.

Can anyone point to any piece of advertising or promotion for the second Conan volume or Solomon Kane? I've just visited the Conan.com site, and found no mention (outside of the forums) of The Bloody Crown of Conan, and had to scavenge for news of the Del Rey editions at all.

Similarly, aside from Terry's tireless and admirable promotion of the books on mailing lists and online forums, there is almost no news of the fact that there's a new Bran Mark Morn collection, out this week, with a never-before-published REH story inside.

 

[VincentDarlage]

The Bran Mak Morn book is out this week? Wow.

You are right. There has been no promotion (other than Terry's efforts) of anything beyond the first Conan book. Rather sad but true. I stumbled onto the The Bloody Crown of Conan and bought both copies, but I didn't know it was out.

 

[Steve Conan Trustrum]

In my opinion, the reason for the declining sales is entirely the fault of Del Rey.

Regardless of the quality of the material and the publications themselves, the subsequent releases have lacked any significant promotion, as opposed to the first volume which was hyped quite widely, well in advance of release.

True. If I wasn't a member of the Sci-Fi Book Club I would have never known they were releasing the new anthologies.

This is too bad -- I was really looking forward to a complete series.

 

[terryallenuk]

Thanks for the comments guys . It does seem there's a lack of promotion and I hear around about the lack of the books in many stores . CPI do seem slow on releasing information about what's going on , as to be honest , do Wandering Star and Dark Horse about upcoming stuff . And even the lack of news on the REHUPA site . Compare that with the push Dynamite/Dynamic Forces are doing with Red Sonja , seems hardly a day goes by when there's not an article / interview appearing on one of the News Boards.

About the only place I remember seeing Solomon Kane advertised were the early DH Conan issues.

Terry

 

[Steve Conan Trustrum]

About the only place I remember seeing Solomon Kane advertised were the early DH Conan issues.

Terry

I can't recall exactly how I came across it, but I found out about SK's (then) upcoming release through Amazon. I don't think it was a front page ad, but they did have something on it buried in their site that let me know about it and sent me to the pre-order.

 

[Jason Durall]

About the only place I remember seeing Solomon Kane advertised were the early DH Conan issues.

Terry

I can't recall exactly how I came across it, but I found out about SK's (then) upcoming release through Amazon. I don't think it was a front page ad, but they did have something on it buried in their site that let me know about it and sent me to the pre-order.

If you ordered the first edition through them, or did a search on REH or related items, it might have been a targeted ad based on your prior usage of their site.

I notice that amazon.com is pretty aggressive about that sort of thing.

 

[Wyrmsbane]

Personally, I have everyone of the "new" editions, the two Conan, Soloman Kain, and I just picked up the Bran Mak Morn book. I think they are the best of fiction and eagerly await the next books. The problem I have is that stores don't stock many and they are hard to find, I ordered the bloody crown book and waited for a couple of weeks for the store to get it.

 

[Wyrmsbane]

Personally, I have everyone of the "new" editions, the two Conan, Soloman Kain, and I just picked up the Bran Mak Morn book. I think they are the best of fiction and eagerly await the next books. The problem I have is that stores don't stock many and they are hard to find, I ordered the bloody crown book and waited for a couple of weeks for the store to get it.

 

[SALette]

I personally have the first two Del Ray Conan compilations, but had to get them as imports, as they had no domestic release here in Australia.

I found the quality of them to be excellent.
As to why they might not be selling as well?

It could be any number of factors; with only some of these relating to reader's tastes. The book market is an insanely complex one, one that I don't pretend to comprehend the intricacies of.

I do wish the rest of their releases well, and will try to purchase what I can, as I've a need to replace what I used to own some years ago.

 

[Iron_Chef]

No publicity is the primary culprit as others have said, plus they don't seem to be stocked well on store shelves. I'd never have known they were out if Amazon hadn't alerted me. I saw virtually no hype for the Del Rey Howard books after the first Conan (maybe one ad for Kane on the back cover of the Dark Horse Conan comic).

I won't be buying the second Conan because I already have those stories and may not be buying the third for the same reason.

I bought Solomon Kane and Bran Mak Morn because I'd never read them but loved Howard and the Del Rey presentation. Bran hasn't arrived yet (maybe that's why I'm constipated, LOL), but I just started digging into Solomon Kane and it's great (not as great as Conan, but what is?). I especially love how Gary Gianni did all those scratchy B&W pen and ink sketches throughout the Kane book --- very evocative of Howard's gloomy swashbuckling mood. It seemed to have more sketch pictures in it at the expense of the full page plates common to the first Conan book. I actually didn't much care for Gianni's Kane plates, but loved those pen and ink sketches.