Did anyone actually playtest the Neroon?

[animus]

I'm just reading through Armageddon again and I just can't believe the Neroon. On paper it looks very weak. Can someone share the details of their playtesting experience?

I'd like to know what it looked like before it was finalized. How did it evolve?

(edited to remove over-the-top sarcasm and glibness)

 

[Chernobyl]

of course they playtested it. but their opinions aren't always yours, or the "forum's" at large. The sagittarius is a prime example.

Chern

 

[animus]

The ship, my favorite design on the new book, looks like crepe paper in battle. I'm just curious about it's evolution. Sorry if I come off to glib.

 

[Neo]

Beyond the initial game rules pretty much everything for ACTA and other wargames by Mongoose is playtested outside the normal Mongoose playtesters.. via the Demo crews, Mongoose (inhouse) and via feedback and conversations by players on the forums.

 

[prelude_to_war]

Playtesting methods aside, the Neroon looks like a great support ship versus the center of a fleet. It'd have some trouble with high value Hull 6 targets but seems it would rip hull 5 and less to shreds. All those fighters via Carrier and Fleet Carrier is a nice addition too. Good looking model IMO - look forward to getting one (if I can ever afford it!).

 

[H]

I have asked this question on a few ships, however the response is usually along the lines of "I" didn't playtest it as I didn't have time, as their are lots of ships and fleets. Fair point.
but someone will have done. . . . (always worrying)

Their are a stupid number of ships, and I suspect some may fall through the net, as they are playtesting version 2 ships already. these things happen.

 

[Alexb83]

Well, I too have reservations about the Neroon. The armament and the carrier options are fine - what's lacking is the hull, crew, and traits.

It has fewer crew than a Sharlin, with barely more damage, but to top this off it has 66% and 50% thresholds, which really makes it suffer.

It is hull 5 (the only other Arma ship at hull 5 is the Vorlon HC?).

When Matt opened up for questions regarding the Neroon etc. on Sat, I asked about the thresholds on it and the Liati, and the answer was that they have so much advanced tech onboard, the ships are a bit flakey - I would accept this explanation /if/ the ships had lots of advanced tech, but improved neutron lasers have been around on the Sharkaan and Shantavi for years, and the other tech has also been on every other Minbo ship for years by the Crusade era.

What it could really do with to make it an effective contender is one or more of the following: +20 crew, and crew and damage thresholds to 70% (this is still weak for an Arma ship). Stealth 6+ (honestly, if EA R&D can come up with infinite range scouts, surely the Worker caste can make 6+ stealth). Adaptive armour (the Minbos have been building adaptive armour ships for the ISA, but not themselves?). Given that the Victory has Hull 6 100/100 with Adaptive armour, and even more advanced tech than the Neroon, I don't think it's too much of a stretch.

 

[Burger]

What it could really do with to make it an effective contender is one or more of the following: +20 crew, and crew and damage thresholds to 70% (this is still weak for an Arma ship). Stealth 6+ (honestly, if EA R&D can come up with infinite range scouts, surely the Worker caste can make 6+ stealth). Adaptive armour (the Minbos have been building adaptive armour ships for the ISA, but not themselves?). Given that the Victory has Hull 6 100/100 with Adaptive armour, and even more advanced tech than the Neroon, I don't think it's too much of a stretch.

Totally agreed, any one of those would fix it. More than one would be too much. Oh and add hull 6 to the list.

 

[Locutus9956]

Actually I think hull 6 might be the best solution. Stealth 6 starts to move into the old style 'I cant be beaten unless your lucky on your stealth rolls, then I'm dead' style stealth. Adaptive armour I think would be too much. Sure the VCD has it but then the VCD doesnt have stealth now does it? I cannot overemphasise how sick it would be if you have a ship you can't hit alot of the time anyway and when you DO hit it it shrugs off half the damage?

Hull 6 ftw (that little change alone would do wonders for the ship I reckon)

 

[Alexb83]

I'm torn - AA with hull 6 means you're going to hit that ship not too often and for small damage.

Hull 5, stealth 5+ no AA means you're going to target that ship about 50% of the time (bearing in mind the new stealth rules, scouts etc), hit it over 50% of the time, and then do massive damage with no reductions.

I don't think that balances out - but I'm sure someone can do the math.

 

[Silvereye]

Looking at it, I'd treat it as the inferior Minbari equivalent of a Poseidon. Its a good, very well armed fleet carrier vessel. Its a criminal command vessel (like practically every other). It is not a good warship in any way shape or form. If you are wanting to launch the fighters, you cannot do any of the useful warship things like CAF! in the first couple of turns.

Right now, I can pick a Shakaan, a Morshin and a Shantavi for the same points cost. They bring me exactly the same traits to the fight, more fighters and much more available firepower.

I'd like to see its hanger space and command increased (to 16 Nials and +2), and from the 'wish list' options listed so far Advanced Armour is a nice subtle touch.

You just need to do too much to make it competetive to 2 Sharlin to start making it a warship that might be considered as such.

 

[animus]

It's the thresholds that really stick out, to me. No matter what else is done, those need to be fixed too. I don't buy the "lots of things can break" response - it's the best ship the Minbari have ever built. It sure doesn't look like it.

Oh, also, the Leshath needs infinite range sensors like the EA has.

 

[thePirv]

Yeah, it's funny how the Minbari, the best/most advanced ship builders in the galaxy after the last of the Ancients leave, can't safely integrate technology, that they've been using for years, into their new ship, while the EA can build a technological super monster like the Nemesis using Shadow technology, or the Narn, so recently after having their planet blasted back to the stone age are capable of building both the G'Vrahn and the Ka'Bin'Tak.
Makes you wonder. Maybe the 'new' technologies on the Neroon just "need time to bed in" and the Neroon will be fixed in version 2.

 

[Burger]

Maybe the 'new' technologies on the Neroon just "need time to bed in" and the Neroon will be fixed in version 2.

Don't even go there!!!!! :lol:

 

[E Nicely]

I'm just reading through Armageddon again and I just can't believe the Neroon. On paper it looks very weak. Can someone share the details of their playtesting experience?

I'd like to know what it looked like before it was finalized. How did it evolve?

(edited to remove over-the-top sarcasm and glibness)

No we didn't playtest it we just put numbers on a dart board and then threw darts to assign values to the stats. Just so people that don't fully grasp how ships fit into a fleet can complain about it.

 

[Slightly Norse John]

Are you sure you want to go on record as having said that? Somebody might believe you

The how of the Neroon is obvious- contrast and compare with the Sharoos (sharlin variant) war cruiser.
The problem I have is that it doesn't fit in to a fleet structure- it's so expensive, it replaces said fleet to all intents and purposes. Like all the Armageddon ships, the battle group you need to support it is, coincidentally, the battle group you haven't got because you splashed out on a ship that needs a fleet structure around it :?

 

[Alexb83]

Heh... the function of the Neroon. It's a Morshin and two shantavis welded together, but costs an extra battle point.

 

[katadder]

well we just did neroon v ka'bin'tak. not a very good test unfortunately. ka'bin'tak saw thru stealth 6 1st turn and nearly skeletoned the neroon in one lot of shooting from beams emine and torps. neroon did some damage back.
next turn the neroon hit 1st getting 5 hits with its beams, 4 crits, 2 of which were to end the game - ka'bin'tak had a -4 speed and no weapons fire front arc crits, which it failed to repair all game so couldnt move or fire and just basically at and died. one up point, a frazi beat a fleet carrier bonused nial in a dogfight

 

[Alexb83]

Well, on a recent Vassal game, Neroon vs. Ka'Bin'Tak the following was learned... under the following conditions, your Neroon is a good investment: You manage to get 4-5 beam hits each round for the first few rounds, and of those roll a forward weapon arc disabled crit coupled with a -4 speed crit.

Those are pretty select conditions though.

 

[katadder]

neroon v nemesis (crap v crap)

the nemesis is even worse, no command ability, poor fighters and only a boresight.
one salvo from the nemesis hvy pulse and missiles did skeleton the neroon but the nemesis as we all know has a lack of crew and when the neroon got 4 crits from 4 hits with that TD beam the nemesis was gone.