Detailed fighter combat rules
- Thread starter locarno24
- Start date
Ok....sorry for a long, rambling and largely incomprehensible post:
Thoughts so far:
Individual Fighters modeled as seperate units.
Movement alternating, roll initiative for who can force the other to move first (and will fire first), as with ACTA
Fighters have their own statlines and move/are killed individualy.
Fighter Flights: a number of fighters within control distance of a flight leader (no idea...something like 3-5"?)
fire simultaneously (though not necessarily all at same target) as one initiative choice. Hence getting better organised and faster fire is the benefit of flying in squadrons. Some flight leaders might also offer an initiative bonus, as with command ships.
Scale - move distances/ranges akin to call to arms.....so order of 10" moves and similar order range.
Simplified inertia - fly on a straight line at constant speed set as 'manouvring speed' for the fighter. Can turn away from direction of heading (so need to mark heading) but no recording of velocity.
(something like 10" per turn? Will vary with fighter class, but not by much - ultimately any fighter could fly at any speed if it really wanted to.)
Need to be able to turn away from heading - 90% of fighters have only frontal guns so the game will be rather odd if not.
'Movement types'
3 major movement types - any given fighter class will be able to expend a certain amount of engine power per turn. You can apply engine power either after half your move and/or after your full move.
Manouvring burn
Fighters able to make a one-turn burn ahead or behind the direction in which the fighter is pointing (not necessarily the direction it is moving in) which stacks with movement - e.g. a 5" manouvring burn can move 5" forwards or backwards (i.e.total move either 5" or 15" with a 10" normal move, or 'slide' 10" forwards and 5" to the side if currently facing perpendicular to the direction of motion). This burn is considered to include an acceleration and deceleration component, so it doesn't have any effect in subsequent turns.
Different fighters will get different movement per point of engine power expended.
Acceleration burn
Fires up the main engines to change course - the 10" per turn (or whatever) is from this point on considered to be in the current facing of the fighter. Different fighters will have to expend different amounts of engine power to achieve this.
Note that this doesn't apply to gravimetric-drive fighters like Minbari, Brakiri, White Star and First One Fighters - any rotation automatically includes acceleration as they can shift their inertia about and fly much more like a modern fighter in an atmosphere. This may have good points and bad points....
Rotational burn
Does exactly what it says on the tin. Rotates the heading of the fighter without changing the forward motion. Again, (axial) acceleration and deceleration included, so you don't start spinning. The maximum amount you can rotate per point of engine power depends on the fighter class.
Shooting - attempt to use some elements of ACTA fighter combat....opposed dice roll, interceptors, etc...
But with a little more detail.
2 effective ranges that I see in B5 - long range shots where fighters are forcing each other to dodge, but achieving little more than that (on a couple of occasions you get a few fighters laying down 'suppressing fire').
close range - the main range at which kills occur because inertia only lets you dodge so much.
When firing on a target, target rolls to evade: a number of dice equal to manouvring/engine power, the best result is your target number to equal or beat to hit it. Roll each time the target gets shot at.
If the target wishes to jink, it gets an extra dice against that firer but this is a point of engine power used up from its next move. You can jink as much as you want if you have power to do so (although you'll end up flying straight ahead as a result)
This is random movement but small burns that ultimately cancel one another out - so no effect on movement other than less
engine power availible.
Particularly good pilots (flight leaders and aces) may get one or more 'free' jink dice
If firing at long range (depends on the weapon but generally more than 15"?) then you need to beat the enemy's best score, not just equal it. This means that if they can roll a 6 you haven't got a prayer of hitting them at that range...
getting on somebody's tail - not the back end of the fighter's heading; that means nothing in this environment (and if it's a starfury badger its a bloody daft idea - rear turret ahoy!) - but such that the fighter's direction of movement passes through your front arc and you're inside your close range. Opponent gets one less die to manouvre with (as they're
easier to hit when their main velocity component is taken out of the equation)
Each hit you roll a die and compare to the hull armour (varies with class - 3 for fragile, 4 normally, 5 for tough fighters and 6 for obscenely tough fighters with adaptive armour; basically vorlons, shadow spitfires, and white star fighters).
You beat it and that fighter is damaged (manouvring score halved/each weapon system destroyed on a 4+). Take two hits and the fighter is jam.
Capital ships - stationary targets in the scale of this game. Get big antifighter batteries in some/all arcs (main guns like lasers can't target a fighter) which get plenty of dice and decent ranges.
No manouvring score but gets 'flak' - the amount of interceptor fire in a given arc determines how hard it is to line up a shot. This means it's easier to hit a capital ship from some arcs than others, and some capital ships may be as near as damnit sitting ducks.
The total interceptor score used up on a given fighter is the number of dice you get to get your opponent's target score, as if it was your engine power rating.
Again, long range gives you a benefit as you have longer to shoot down fire at long range. An attacker might manage to occupy a few interceptors whilst someone closer does the damage, though.
Any hits have to beat the hull score to do damage (almost inevitably 5's or 6's), get a roll on a damage table (specific to ship) which may knock out
guns, interceptors, and/or do hull damage.
Some fighters will get weapons that get double or triple dice against a ship, or can only be used effectively against a ship (Thunderbolt's missile racks, Rutarian's light battle laser, etc. Basically unwieldy but powerful stuff)
Might get especially agile ships able to move - things like a sunhawk, shadow ship or white star - but that's about it. Under most circumstances ships (if there's one on each side) will be standing there slugging at one another whilst the fighters dogfight between them (with a possible risk of being caught by gunfire passing between the two ships if you're not careful)
Idea for a fighter statline (vaguely supposed to be a Starfury Aurora):
Hull: 4+
Manouvring Speed: 10"
Engine Power: 3
Manouvring Burn: 4"
Rotational Burn: 45'
Acceleration Burn: 2
Weapons:
Uni-Pulse Cannon
Close Range: 10"
Long Range: 20"
Firepower 2
Arc: Forwards
Uni-Pulse Cannon
Close Range: 10"
Long Range: 20"
Firepower 2
Arc: Forwards
(Both weapons must fire on the same target)
I'll do a few playtests next time I get a chance....any other thoughts or comments welcome.
Thoughts so far:
Individual Fighters modeled as seperate units.
Movement alternating, roll initiative for who can force the other to move first (and will fire first), as with ACTA
Fighters have their own statlines and move/are killed individualy.
Fighter Flights: a number of fighters within control distance of a flight leader (no idea...something like 3-5"?)
fire simultaneously (though not necessarily all at same target) as one initiative choice. Hence getting better organised and faster fire is the benefit of flying in squadrons. Some flight leaders might also offer an initiative bonus, as with command ships.
Scale - move distances/ranges akin to call to arms.....so order of 10" moves and similar order range.
Simplified inertia - fly on a straight line at constant speed set as 'manouvring speed' for the fighter. Can turn away from direction of heading (so need to mark heading) but no recording of velocity.
(something like 10" per turn? Will vary with fighter class, but not by much - ultimately any fighter could fly at any speed if it really wanted to.)
Need to be able to turn away from heading - 90% of fighters have only frontal guns so the game will be rather odd if not.
'Movement types'
3 major movement types - any given fighter class will be able to expend a certain amount of engine power per turn. You can apply engine power either after half your move and/or after your full move.
Manouvring burn
Fighters able to make a one-turn burn ahead or behind the direction in which the fighter is pointing (not necessarily the direction it is moving in) which stacks with movement - e.g. a 5" manouvring burn can move 5" forwards or backwards (i.e.total move either 5" or 15" with a 10" normal move, or 'slide' 10" forwards and 5" to the side if currently facing perpendicular to the direction of motion). This burn is considered to include an acceleration and deceleration component, so it doesn't have any effect in subsequent turns.
Different fighters will get different movement per point of engine power expended.
Acceleration burn
Fires up the main engines to change course - the 10" per turn (or whatever) is from this point on considered to be in the current facing of the fighter. Different fighters will have to expend different amounts of engine power to achieve this.
Note that this doesn't apply to gravimetric-drive fighters like Minbari, Brakiri, White Star and First One Fighters - any rotation automatically includes acceleration as they can shift their inertia about and fly much more like a modern fighter in an atmosphere. This may have good points and bad points....
Rotational burn
Does exactly what it says on the tin. Rotates the heading of the fighter without changing the forward motion. Again, (axial) acceleration and deceleration included, so you don't start spinning. The maximum amount you can rotate per point of engine power depends on the fighter class.
Shooting - attempt to use some elements of ACTA fighter combat....opposed dice roll, interceptors, etc...
But with a little more detail.
2 effective ranges that I see in B5 - long range shots where fighters are forcing each other to dodge, but achieving little more than that (on a couple of occasions you get a few fighters laying down 'suppressing fire').
close range - the main range at which kills occur because inertia only lets you dodge so much.
When firing on a target, target rolls to evade: a number of dice equal to manouvring/engine power, the best result is your target number to equal or beat to hit it. Roll each time the target gets shot at.
If the target wishes to jink, it gets an extra dice against that firer but this is a point of engine power used up from its next move. You can jink as much as you want if you have power to do so (although you'll end up flying straight ahead as a result)
This is random movement but small burns that ultimately cancel one another out - so no effect on movement other than less
engine power availible.
Particularly good pilots (flight leaders and aces) may get one or more 'free' jink dice
If firing at long range (depends on the weapon but generally more than 15"?) then you need to beat the enemy's best score, not just equal it. This means that if they can roll a 6 you haven't got a prayer of hitting them at that range...
getting on somebody's tail - not the back end of the fighter's heading; that means nothing in this environment (and if it's a starfury badger its a bloody daft idea - rear turret ahoy!) - but such that the fighter's direction of movement passes through your front arc and you're inside your close range. Opponent gets one less die to manouvre with (as they're
easier to hit when their main velocity component is taken out of the equation)
Each hit you roll a die and compare to the hull armour (varies with class - 3 for fragile, 4 normally, 5 for tough fighters and 6 for obscenely tough fighters with adaptive armour; basically vorlons, shadow spitfires, and white star fighters).
You beat it and that fighter is damaged (manouvring score halved/each weapon system destroyed on a 4+). Take two hits and the fighter is jam.
Capital ships - stationary targets in the scale of this game. Get big antifighter batteries in some/all arcs (main guns like lasers can't target a fighter) which get plenty of dice and decent ranges.
No manouvring score but gets 'flak' - the amount of interceptor fire in a given arc determines how hard it is to line up a shot. This means it's easier to hit a capital ship from some arcs than others, and some capital ships may be as near as damnit sitting ducks.
The total interceptor score used up on a given fighter is the number of dice you get to get your opponent's target score, as if it was your engine power rating.
Again, long range gives you a benefit as you have longer to shoot down fire at long range. An attacker might manage to occupy a few interceptors whilst someone closer does the damage, though.
Any hits have to beat the hull score to do damage (almost inevitably 5's or 6's), get a roll on a damage table (specific to ship) which may knock out
guns, interceptors, and/or do hull damage.
Some fighters will get weapons that get double or triple dice against a ship, or can only be used effectively against a ship (Thunderbolt's missile racks, Rutarian's light battle laser, etc. Basically unwieldy but powerful stuff)
Might get especially agile ships able to move - things like a sunhawk, shadow ship or white star - but that's about it. Under most circumstances ships (if there's one on each side) will be standing there slugging at one another whilst the fighters dogfight between them (with a possible risk of being caught by gunfire passing between the two ships if you're not careful)
Idea for a fighter statline (vaguely supposed to be a Starfury Aurora):
Hull: 4+
Manouvring Speed: 10"
Engine Power: 3
Manouvring Burn: 4"
Rotational Burn: 45'
Acceleration Burn: 2
Weapons:
Uni-Pulse Cannon
Close Range: 10"
Long Range: 20"
Firepower 2
Arc: Forwards
Uni-Pulse Cannon
Close Range: 10"
Long Range: 20"
Firepower 2
Arc: Forwards
(Both weapons must fire on the same target)
I'll do a few playtests next time I get a chance....any other thoughts or comments welcome.
Locutus9956
Mongoose
you can still get the larger fighters from Agents of Gaming (though they ARE a dead company they still sell what theyve got left in stock, it is starting to run low though 
)
http://www.agentsofgaming.com/oshop.htm
(edit: just to clarify, the large scale fighters are the B5W ones. The mongoose minis are the B5W capital ships and the FA fighters) If you order off AoG I HIGHLY recomend some of their metal flight stands as they are simply WAY better than the Mongoose plastic ones (cant comment on the Mongoose metal ones as I havent used them)
)http://www.agentsofgaming.com/oshop.htm
(edit: just to clarify, the large scale fighters are the B5W ones. The mongoose minis are the B5W capital ships and the FA fighters) If you order off AoG I HIGHLY recomend some of their metal flight stands as they are simply WAY better than the Mongoose plastic ones (cant comment on the Mongoose metal ones as I havent used them)
I knew I should have looted Star Warriors from my games club for over Christmas....
Agree
Depending on the amount of fighters on the table (possibly 6-12 I'd guess) It might actually be better rolling for each fighter or 'wing', and then moving them in lowest to highest order. And shooting highest to lowest.
Agree, though I would give them individual damage tracks, and perhaps a simplified critical hit table.
I would make it benefitial for fighters to operate in small 'groups' either lead + wingman, or lead + 2 wingmen. The lead will probably be the better or more experianced pilot and the group will move at the same time an shoot at the same time, however they will have to maintain a 'formation', and benefit from the lead. Adding bonus traits to the lead pilot would further encourage this if they can pass it onto their wing. Aslo wingmen could be required to be shot at first when attacked from behind.
I'm not too sure fo this one, basically this idea is to simulate what happens when the fighters get close enough to fire on each other. ACTA simulates this with the 2"-4" weapon range band and the lenght of an ACTA turn. With fighter on fighter, you could shorten the length of turn and increase the weapon ranges (change of scale).
For movement, I'd give them a turn fraction based (1/4, 1/3, 1/2, 2/3 and 3/4) on their speed and a turn rate (e.g. 45º or 90º). It then allows the fighters to move as fast or as slow as they wish and still keep a constant manoeuverability. E.G. Aurora Starfury may turn 1/4, 90º so moving at a speed of 12", it could make up to a 90º turn every 3" if the pilot wished
I'd give each fighter weapon 4 range bands of some inches, Point Blank/Short/Medium/Long and an accuracy bonus/penalty at each one. So while a Nial may be good at shooting at all ranges, the starfury might perform much better at Point Blank and Short ranges, but suffer more at Long ranges.
I'd also allow fighters to perform a couple of actions based on the pilots skill (1 for Green, 2 for Regular, 3 for Veteran, 4 for Ace), such as jinking to avoid being hit (and making your own shooting worse) or tailing an enemy to get a better shot (+1 to hit, but making it easier for a second enemy to shoot you). Others might be a 1/2 loop to change direction within normal turn restrictions (2 would be a full loop), accelerating/deccelerating (alter speed by 2"), turning harder (1/2 becomes 1/3), holding steady (+1" Range). A leader could pass some of his skill rating onto his wingmen, potentially allowing them to perform extra actions.
Perhaps give each weapon a damage dice more like VaS, so once hit a target must be damaged. So Nials may be hard to hit, but easier to damage as opposed to Frazi's that would be easier to hit, but harder to damage.
Also add a damaged and dropout threshold to the damage fighter: damaged means the fighter can loose traits and 1 Action, dropout means the fighter must roll each turn to stay in the fight, and looses reamining traits, some AD and some manoeuvreability.
I'd try and get the fighter mechanics down, before adding capital ships into the mix. However I like the 'flak' idea.
So a fighter sheet may look something like:
Name: Aurora Starfury
Initiative: +1
Manoeuvre: 1/4; 90º
Hull: 4
Armour: 4
Damage: 10/5/3
Special: Afterburners (Aurora can accelerate and deccelerate at double the normal rate)
Weapons:
Uni-Pulse Cannon; Range 3"; 2AD; Accuracy +3,+1,+0,-1; 2 DD
Name: Nial Heavy Fighter
Initiative: +2
Manoeuvre: 1/3; 45º
Hull: 4(5)
Armour: 3
Damage: 9/4/2
Special: Atmospheric, Stealth (Nials are harder to hit at long ranges where computer targetting assistance is provided, they are Hull 5 at Short, Medium and Long Ranges)
Weapons:
Light Fusion Cannon; Range 4"; 3AD; Accuracy +1,+1,+1,-0; 2 DD AP
Name: Sentri interceptor
Initiative: +2
Manoeuvre: 1/3; 90º
Hull: 4
Armour: 3
Damage: 9/4/2
Special: Atmospheric, Dogfighter (Sentri's are designed for anti-fighter actions, they do not suffer shooting penalties while Jinking and may perform a Tailing manoeuvre as a free action)
Weapons:
Light Particle Gun; Range 3"; 2AD; Accuracy +2,+1,+1,-0; 2 DD Weak
locarno24 said:
Agree
locarno24 said:
Depending on the amount of fighters on the table (possibly 6-12 I'd guess) It might actually be better rolling for each fighter or 'wing', and then moving them in lowest to highest order. And shooting highest to lowest.
locarno24 said:
Agree, though I would give them individual damage tracks, and perhaps a simplified critical hit table.
locarno24 said:
I would make it benefitial for fighters to operate in small 'groups' either lead + wingman, or lead + 2 wingmen. The lead will probably be the better or more experianced pilot and the group will move at the same time an shoot at the same time, however they will have to maintain a 'formation', and benefit from the lead. Adding bonus traits to the lead pilot would further encourage this if they can pass it onto their wing. Aslo wingmen could be required to be shot at first when attacked from behind.
locarno24 said:
I'm not too sure fo this one, basically this idea is to simulate what happens when the fighters get close enough to fire on each other. ACTA simulates this with the 2"-4" weapon range band and the lenght of an ACTA turn. With fighter on fighter, you could shorten the length of turn and increase the weapon ranges (change of scale).
For movement, I'd give them a turn fraction based (1/4, 1/3, 1/2, 2/3 and 3/4) on their speed and a turn rate (e.g. 45º or 90º). It then allows the fighters to move as fast or as slow as they wish and still keep a constant manoeuverability. E.G. Aurora Starfury may turn 1/4, 90º so moving at a speed of 12", it could make up to a 90º turn every 3" if the pilot wished
locarno24 said:
I'd give each fighter weapon 4 range bands of some inches, Point Blank/Short/Medium/Long and an accuracy bonus/penalty at each one. So while a Nial may be good at shooting at all ranges, the starfury might perform much better at Point Blank and Short ranges, but suffer more at Long ranges.
I'd also allow fighters to perform a couple of actions based on the pilots skill (1 for Green, 2 for Regular, 3 for Veteran, 4 for Ace), such as jinking to avoid being hit (and making your own shooting worse) or tailing an enemy to get a better shot (+1 to hit, but making it easier for a second enemy to shoot you). Others might be a 1/2 loop to change direction within normal turn restrictions (2 would be a full loop), accelerating/deccelerating (alter speed by 2"), turning harder (1/2 becomes 1/3), holding steady (+1" Range). A leader could pass some of his skill rating onto his wingmen, potentially allowing them to perform extra actions.
Perhaps give each weapon a damage dice more like VaS, so once hit a target must be damaged. So Nials may be hard to hit, but easier to damage as opposed to Frazi's that would be easier to hit, but harder to damage.
Also add a damaged and dropout threshold to the damage fighter: damaged means the fighter can loose traits and 1 Action, dropout means the fighter must roll each turn to stay in the fight, and looses reamining traits, some AD and some manoeuvreability.
I'd try and get the fighter mechanics down, before adding capital ships into the mix. However I like the 'flak' idea.
So a fighter sheet may look something like:
Name: Aurora Starfury
Initiative: +1
Manoeuvre: 1/4; 90º
Hull: 4
Armour: 4
Damage: 10/5/3
Special: Afterburners (Aurora can accelerate and deccelerate at double the normal rate)
Weapons:
Uni-Pulse Cannon; Range 3"; 2AD; Accuracy +3,+1,+0,-1; 2 DD
Name: Nial Heavy Fighter
Initiative: +2
Manoeuvre: 1/3; 45º
Hull: 4(5)
Armour: 3
Damage: 9/4/2
Special: Atmospheric, Stealth (Nials are harder to hit at long ranges where computer targetting assistance is provided, they are Hull 5 at Short, Medium and Long Ranges)
Weapons:
Light Fusion Cannon; Range 4"; 3AD; Accuracy +1,+1,+1,-0; 2 DD AP
Name: Sentri interceptor
Initiative: +2
Manoeuvre: 1/3; 90º
Hull: 4
Armour: 3
Damage: 9/4/2
Special: Atmospheric, Dogfighter (Sentri's are designed for anti-fighter actions, they do not suffer shooting penalties while Jinking and may perform a Tailing manoeuvre as a free action)
Weapons:
Light Particle Gun; Range 3"; 2AD; Accuracy +2,+1,+1,-0; 2 DD Weak
I like the idea of one shot kills being possible and have actually come up with a full set of rules and stats but hadn't fully balanced them out so hadn't posted them yet. Basically, they use the normal ACtA stats (except dogfight) and have a turn rating (mainly based upon being heavy/medium/light fighters). Damage is d6 points per hit and a d6 critical table with effects multiplied by the amount of damage done in the shot (to produce more variety). I'll dig them out and post them in a bit 
More or less What I'd be thinking. A full capital ship load should be a damn big battle....
The problem comes when fielding more than about 4-5 groups/lone ships, that this becomes a bit clunky....I never really liked the initiative bit of B5 wars, although I'll happily admit it is more accurate it tended to slow everything down..
3 probably makes for a better game. Making the ace the last guy to be shot down makes sense, otherwise he'll be the first guy to get it in the neck every time, which seems kind of unheroic.
Sorry....me being unclear - I was meaning a similar order of magnitude to ACTA ships, not auxiliary craft....
If you fire at a group and you can't pick out a squadron leader, then having him pass any extra free jinks to his group makes sense.
If you've got enough engine power to rotate 180' then it doesn't matter if you do it about a horizontal/vertical axis...
Tailing might make sense - something akin to 'concentrate all fire', I suppose - you lose an evasion dice and can't manouvre in the movement phase other than to bring your guns to bear....but get to reroll to hit.
opposed Evasion/flak roll plus fixed hull score to damage, as noted. Perhaps cloning the armour priercing traits for the latter might work.
True. Something simple like critical and you're dead seems a bit simpler, but then I like faster-moving games.
Look forward to seeing them.
I'm afraid I'm busy tonight, but I'll have a go with the various ideas tomorrow night, and see if I can get a better scrubbed-up rules set done
Capships just an idea at this point. I agree.
locarno24 said:
But if there is sufficient encouragement that wings are a good thing, then this will reduce the number of fighter groups to a manageable level, 2 squadrons is say 12 fighters, pair them into wings and you only have 6 initiative rolls between the two players.
Also I wasn't too sure of the 'Evasion save', hence proposing a defensive movement that made it harder for the attacker to hit the target as well as offensive improvements that made it easier for the attacker. Basically I was thinking along the lines of Wedge over the Death Star where the TIE fighter was chasing him attempting to shoot. Hence the Attack Roll then Damage Roll instead of Attack Roll then Evasion Roll then Damage Roll.
But its a fine balance of being able to put in enough detail to make the game different, but keeping it fast without excessive book keeping.
I used the 'loop' to give the feel of dedicating an action to rapidly reversing course and direction, though there is nothing to say that this is an up-and-over manoeuvre as space is 3D and gravity is negligable.
Should be interesting to see what Triggy has though.
OK, here we go:
My view on a fighter type game is a very mission-based game with bombing runs, escort missions, raids, etc. being the flavour of the day. All miniatures would be the B5W scale fighters, with the occasional capital ship (generally the smaller ones) and definitely civillian craft present.
Use the standard ACtA rules except where stated...
Special Actions:
Manoeuvre to Shield Them
Activate Jump Gate
All Stop
Give Me Ramming Speed
Concentrate All Fire
Come About
All Power to Engines (Afterburners add 100% for the turn instead as a one-off)
Skin Dancing
New Special Actions:
Pivot and Shoot: CQ9, counts all weapons as turreted for this turn only
Scanners to Full: +50% to fighter's weapons' range but -1 to dodge roll for the turn
Evasive Manoeuvres: CQ9, reroll dodges, may not shoot for the turn
Missiles: Launched as per weapon range. Then move 24" per turn towards the same target. Is shoot downable (Hull 5, Damage 1), also can be intercepted.
Dogfighting: Dogfighting rules are not in effect.
Damage
d6 Damage per hit on ships with Fighter trait (multiplied by Double Damage, etc. as normal), no effect on Crew score from a normal hit on a Fighter.
If Fighter takes damage then roll a d6 per hit, 6=Roll on the Critical Table:
1-2 Engines: -4* Speed
3 Reactor: No Special Actions
4 Weapons: -1*AD off all weapon systems
5 Crew: -1 Crew
6 Vital Systems: No Repairs, No Special Actions
*multiply by the amount of damage done by the hit
Ships Available:
Patrol:
Kotha (3)
Delta-V (3)
Tiger Starfury (2)
Razik (no torpedoes) (2)
EA Assault Shuttle (2)
Narn Assault Shuttle (2)
Skirmish:
Aurora Starfury (2)
Thunderbolt (no missiles) (2)
Delta Double-V (3)
Tishat (2)
Sentri (3)
EA Breaching Pod (3)
Razik (with torpedoes) (3)
Frazi (3)
Falkiosi (3)
Star Snake (3)
Tzymm (2)
Civilian Trader
Raid:
Nial (2)
Thunderbolt (with missiles) (3)
Delta V-2 (3)
Rutarian (1)
Minbari Breaching Pod (3)
Corporate Tanker
Corporate Freighter
Battle:
Sky Serpent (1)
Shadow Fighter (2)
Vorlon Fighter (2)
Patrol Boat
Space Liner
War:
White Star Fighter (1)
Drakh Light Raider
Drakh Heavy Raider
Armageddon:
Vorlon Transport
Blue Star
Thirdspace Raider
I obviously have more that I can add, particularly B5W fighters so far unused by Mongoose and more civilian ships.
Stats to follow...
My view on a fighter type game is a very mission-based game with bombing runs, escort missions, raids, etc. being the flavour of the day. All miniatures would be the B5W scale fighters, with the occasional capital ship (generally the smaller ones) and definitely civillian craft present.
Use the standard ACtA rules except where stated...
Special Actions:
Manoeuvre to Shield Them
Activate Jump Gate
All Stop
Give Me Ramming Speed
Concentrate All Fire
Come About
All Power to Engines (Afterburners add 100% for the turn instead as a one-off)
Skin Dancing
New Special Actions:
Pivot and Shoot: CQ9, counts all weapons as turreted for this turn only
Scanners to Full: +50% to fighter's weapons' range but -1 to dodge roll for the turn
Evasive Manoeuvres: CQ9, reroll dodges, may not shoot for the turn
Missiles: Launched as per weapon range. Then move 24" per turn towards the same target. Is shoot downable (Hull 5, Damage 1), also can be intercepted.
Dogfighting: Dogfighting rules are not in effect.
Damage
d6 Damage per hit on ships with Fighter trait (multiplied by Double Damage, etc. as normal), no effect on Crew score from a normal hit on a Fighter.
If Fighter takes damage then roll a d6 per hit, 6=Roll on the Critical Table:
1-2 Engines: -4* Speed
3 Reactor: No Special Actions
4 Weapons: -1*AD off all weapon systems
5 Crew: -1 Crew
6 Vital Systems: No Repairs, No Special Actions
*multiply by the amount of damage done by the hit
Ships Available:
Patrol:
Kotha (3)
Delta-V (3)
Tiger Starfury (2)
Razik (no torpedoes) (2)
EA Assault Shuttle (2)
Narn Assault Shuttle (2)
Skirmish:
Aurora Starfury (2)
Thunderbolt (no missiles) (2)
Delta Double-V (3)
Tishat (2)
Sentri (3)
EA Breaching Pod (3)
Razik (with torpedoes) (3)
Frazi (3)
Falkiosi (3)
Star Snake (3)
Tzymm (2)
Civilian Trader
Raid:
Nial (2)
Thunderbolt (with missiles) (3)
Delta V-2 (3)
Rutarian (1)
Minbari Breaching Pod (3)
Corporate Tanker
Corporate Freighter
Battle:
Sky Serpent (1)
Shadow Fighter (2)
Vorlon Fighter (2)
Patrol Boat
Space Liner
War:
White Star Fighter (1)
Drakh Light Raider
Drakh Heavy Raider
Armageddon:
Vorlon Transport
Blue Star
Thirdspace Raider
I obviously have more that I can add, particularly B5W fighters so far unused by Mongoose and more civilian ships.
Stats to follow...
Aurora Starfury
Speed: 12
Turns: 2/45
Hull: 4
Damage: 5
Crew: 1
Special: Afterburner, Dodge 4+, Fighter
15" F 2AD AP, Twin-Linked
Thunderbolt Starfury
Speed: 10
Turns: 2/45
Hull: 5
Damage: 5
Crew: 1
Special: Afterburner, Dodge 5+, Fighter, Atmospheric
12" F 4AD
(Missiles) 12" F 3AD AP, Missile
Nial
Speed: 15
Turns: 2/45
Hull: 5
Damage: 5
Crew: 1
Special: Atmospheric, Dodge 4+, Fighter, Flight Computer, Stealth 4+
15" F 3AD Twin-Linked, Mini-Beam
Sentri
Speed: 12
Turns: 1/90
Hull: 3
Damage: 4
Crew: 1
Special: Atmospheric, Dodge 4+, Fighter
9" F 4AD Twin-Linked, Weak
Frazi
Speed: 10
Turns: 2/45
Hull: 4
Damage: 4
Crew: 1
Special: Atmospheric, Dodge 5+, Fighter
12" F 2AD AP, Twin-Linked
Vorlon Fighter
Speed: 9
Turns: 2/45
Hull: 5
Damage: 5
Crew: -
Special: Adaptive Armour, Advanced Jump Point, Atmospheric, Dodge 5+, Fighter, Flight Computer
18" F 2AD Anti-Fighter, AP, Beam, Precise
Shadow Fighter
Speed: 12
Turns: 1/90
Hull: 6
Damage: 6
Crew: -
Special: Advanced Jump Point, Atmospheric, Dodge 5+, Fighter, Flight Computer, Self-Repair 2
12" F 4AD AP, Double Damage
Sky Serpent
Speed: 8
Turns: 1/45
Hull: 6
Damage: 10
Crew: 1
Special: Dodge 5+, Fighter
18" F 4AD Twin-Linked
24" F 1AD Precise, Triple Damage
(Missiles) 12" F 6AD AP, Missile, Double Damage
Delta-V
Speed: 8
Turns: 2/90
Hull: 3
Damage: 3
Crew: 1
Special: Atmospheric, Dodge 4+, Fighter
12" F 2AD Twin-Linked, Weak
White Star Fighter
Move: 16
Turns 2/90
Hull: 5
Damage: 12
Crew: 1
Special: Adaptive Armour, Advanced Jump Point, Atmospheric, Dodge 5+, Flight Computer, Self-Repair 1
12" F 2AD Anti-Fighter, AP, Double Damage, Precise
12" F 2AD Anti-Fighter, AP, Double Damage, Precise
Drakh Heavy Raider
Speed: 10
Turns: 1/45
Hull: 4
Damage: 18/4
Crew: 18/3
Special: Dodge 5+, Flight Computer, GEG 1
48" F 2AD Beam, Double Damage, Precise, Super AP
Star Snake
Speed: 14
Turns: 2/90
Hull: 4
Damage: 3
Crew: 1
Special: Dodge 4+, Fighter
12" F 2AD Twin-Linked
These are the ones I've playtested and seem to work so far. Again, suffice to say, there's lots more work to do. Be my guess if you want to add to this or make suggestions (or do something completely different - these after all are only my ideas)
Speed: 12
Turns: 2/45
Hull: 4
Damage: 5
Crew: 1
Special: Afterburner, Dodge 4+, Fighter
15" F 2AD AP, Twin-Linked
Thunderbolt Starfury
Speed: 10
Turns: 2/45
Hull: 5
Damage: 5
Crew: 1
Special: Afterburner, Dodge 5+, Fighter, Atmospheric
12" F 4AD
(Missiles) 12" F 3AD AP, Missile
Nial
Speed: 15
Turns: 2/45
Hull: 5
Damage: 5
Crew: 1
Special: Atmospheric, Dodge 4+, Fighter, Flight Computer, Stealth 4+
15" F 3AD Twin-Linked, Mini-Beam
Sentri
Speed: 12
Turns: 1/90
Hull: 3
Damage: 4
Crew: 1
Special: Atmospheric, Dodge 4+, Fighter
9" F 4AD Twin-Linked, Weak
Frazi
Speed: 10
Turns: 2/45
Hull: 4
Damage: 4
Crew: 1
Special: Atmospheric, Dodge 5+, Fighter
12" F 2AD AP, Twin-Linked
Vorlon Fighter
Speed: 9
Turns: 2/45
Hull: 5
Damage: 5
Crew: -
Special: Adaptive Armour, Advanced Jump Point, Atmospheric, Dodge 5+, Fighter, Flight Computer
18" F 2AD Anti-Fighter, AP, Beam, Precise
Shadow Fighter
Speed: 12
Turns: 1/90
Hull: 6
Damage: 6
Crew: -
Special: Advanced Jump Point, Atmospheric, Dodge 5+, Fighter, Flight Computer, Self-Repair 2
12" F 4AD AP, Double Damage
Sky Serpent
Speed: 8
Turns: 1/45
Hull: 6
Damage: 10
Crew: 1
Special: Dodge 5+, Fighter
18" F 4AD Twin-Linked
24" F 1AD Precise, Triple Damage
(Missiles) 12" F 6AD AP, Missile, Double Damage
Delta-V
Speed: 8
Turns: 2/90
Hull: 3
Damage: 3
Crew: 1
Special: Atmospheric, Dodge 4+, Fighter
12" F 2AD Twin-Linked, Weak
White Star Fighter
Move: 16
Turns 2/90
Hull: 5
Damage: 12
Crew: 1
Special: Adaptive Armour, Advanced Jump Point, Atmospheric, Dodge 5+, Flight Computer, Self-Repair 1
12" F 2AD Anti-Fighter, AP, Double Damage, Precise
12" F 2AD Anti-Fighter, AP, Double Damage, Precise
Drakh Heavy Raider
Speed: 10
Turns: 1/45
Hull: 4
Damage: 18/4
Crew: 18/3
Special: Dodge 5+, Flight Computer, GEG 1
48" F 2AD Beam, Double Damage, Precise, Super AP
Star Snake
Speed: 14
Turns: 2/90
Hull: 4
Damage: 3
Crew: 1
Special: Dodge 4+, Fighter
12" F 2AD Twin-Linked
These are the ones I've playtested and seem to work so far. Again, suffice to say, there's lots more work to do. Be my guess if you want to add to this or make suggestions (or do something completely different - these after all are only my ideas)
Expert Pilots (do not come with a ship):
Commander [Skirmish]
CQ6
Command +2
Veteran Squadron Leader (3) [Skirmish]
CQ5
Command +1
Veteran (3) [Patrol]
CQ5
Bear in mind, these may seem slightly on the weak side but with the CQ bonuses they can bring to squadrons they actually dramatically affect gameplay!
Commander [Skirmish]
CQ6
Command +2
Veteran Squadron Leader (3) [Skirmish]
CQ5
Command +1
Veteran (3) [Patrol]
CQ5
Bear in mind, these may seem slightly on the weak side but with the CQ bonuses they can bring to squadrons they actually dramatically affect gameplay!
philogara_mk2
Mongoose
There are some very good ideas on this thread.
@Triggy - not wishing to turn this into the "crew score" thread, but is it really worth it for this level. All the fighters you've stated so far are Crew 1, so one crew crit is dead.
Messed around with some ideas myself in the past (everyone's a budding games designer), but they tended away from the ACTA system (e.g. thrust points in place of speed, alternative firing system (less dice!)).
@Triggy - not wishing to turn this into the "crew score" thread, but is it really worth it for this level. All the fighters you've stated so far are Crew 1, so one crew crit is dead.
Messed around with some ideas myself in the past (everyone's a budding games designer
), but they tended away from the ACTA system (e.g. thrust points in place of speed, alternative firing system (less dice!)).Actually it's your evasion roll then my roll to hit then my roll to damage (if any shots hit) - your best evasion roll is my target number.
Had a try with Triggy's ruleset.....seems to work well...it's an interesting one - Pivot and shoot is a useful mechanism. The one thought I had was if using the ACTA mechanics, maybe try a fighter base with 6 fighters as a single moving block, but knock down fighters as you pass a given damage threshold (so as to be able to use current fighter base models). White star fighters & the like are more expensive but operate independantly...
I think it's the one that could most easily translate to a S&P article, given that it's a neat little evolution of the ACTA rules.
And I'd drop the crew score, and just make the critical hit 'pilot kiled'
Just make Drakh Raiders, White Stars and Sunhawks immune. (they have rather two many crew to lose them all in one hit)
Had a try with mine quickly using a pair of starfuries....worked ok, I think - essentially both sides had a couple of rounds of shooting to fairly minimal effect until one side managed to put both of their furies onto one of the others, needing to jink twice left the fighter unable to get effectively out of their arc the following turn and one of them dropped in on its tail and it got pasted. The following two-on-one fight was pretty predictable.
Had another go this morning using excell in place of a board - network dead so we had naff all ealse to do. The longer ranges worked well, a 3 vs 3 game seemed to go ok - actual result was 3-0 to one side but it was a fun enough game to play though...
Thanks for the support - yeah crew scores on Fighters seem kind of redundant (but not on the capital ships) so I'd go along with that.
Silvereye - your rules are not too bad if you want to start going into the detailed end of things. There's plenty of scope there for special actions, "weird" weapons (like those that get more accurate the further away you are), etc. Haven't played them yet though...
Locutus - almost getting into the realms of vectored movement here, although if any scale of B5 combat could use this, it's fighter combat! Same sort of points go here as for Silvereye - it depends what you want of this sort of game. If you want lots and lots of detail then you're heading in the right direction. If you want larger groups to fight (12+ a side) then these rules will become unwieldy. No reason to say either approach is right or wrong, but I'd pick your flavour and run with it
Silvereye - your rules are not too bad if you want to start going into the detailed end of things. There's plenty of scope there for special actions, "weird" weapons (like those that get more accurate the further away you are), etc. Haven't played them yet though...
Locutus - almost getting into the realms of vectored movement here, although if any scale of B5 combat could use this, it's fighter combat! Same sort of points go here as for Silvereye - it depends what you want of this sort of game. If you want lots and lots of detail then you're heading in the right direction. If you want larger groups to fight (12+ a side) then these rules will become unwieldy. No reason to say either approach is right or wrong, but I'd pick your flavour and run with it
I was looking for a more detailed feel than ACTA currently has, and fighters could be a good way to do so as they have a lot less 'system maintenance' then a starship. Whilst Star Warriors was great in its attention to detail, all that detail did "slow" it down a lot due to record keeping. I was looking for some middleground where your manoeuvres can make a big difference to how the fight pans out, without all the roll for this, check that, balance here. I would be very happy to play a B5 version of Star Warriors.
Game size, I was aiming at around 4-10 fighters per side. Though ideally a flight of 6.
Basically a mandatory speed that you have to move, but the speed is controllable by the player. Some form of manoeuverability based around the fighter and the speed it is going, and some simple manoeuvres like the 'loops', jinking, and attempting more accurate shooting.
Damage, I was looking art something to simply split the fighter into Working Normaly, Damaged but still functional and Crippled and just hanging on. As well as some basic critical hits to represent lucky damage being dealt. Overall I was looking at a similar survivability as Patrol Ships vs Patrol Ships since that level of games can play out quite quickly.
@Triggy. As for the 'weird' weapons I was thinking Missiles would be an ideal example fo those that are more accurate when fired at a longer range.
Game size, I was aiming at around 4-10 fighters per side. Though ideally a flight of 6.
Basically a mandatory speed that you have to move, but the speed is controllable by the player. Some form of manoeuverability based around the fighter and the speed it is going, and some simple manoeuvres like the 'loops', jinking, and attempting more accurate shooting.
Damage, I was looking art something to simply split the fighter into Working Normaly, Damaged but still functional and Crippled and just hanging on. As well as some basic critical hits to represent lucky damage being dealt. Overall I was looking at a similar survivability as Patrol Ships vs Patrol Ships since that level of games can play out quite quickly.
@Triggy. As for the 'weird' weapons I was thinking Missiles would be an ideal example fo those that are more accurate when fired at a longer range.
Exactly my thoughts tooSilvereye said:
I still prefer the basic ACtA mechanics but that's because I'd like to see the game cater for slightly larger combats if desired but also because people are already familiar with the rules. That's a personal preference though, and I've had good results with the balance side of things so I could expand this to include [all] fighters if there is a desire!
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