Demonic Pact

[Style]

The newest character in my campaign is a stygian sorcerer with a Demonic Pact. What advice can you give me for running a game with a PC who has a demonic pact? I'd particularly love to hear examples of how you used a demonic pact to great effect within the story of your game.

Thanks!

 

[Style]

No one has ever had a PC make a demonic pact in their game before? Guess I'm a pioneer.

 

[flatscan]

No one has ever had a PC make a demonic pact in their game before? Guess I'm a pioneer.

Not in my game, although there is one PC with a sorta pact with a yaggite in my game. But no risk of corruption and he has to use the yaggite's "heart" to cast the spells provided by the artifact. So...don't think that counts. :wink:

 

[Stygian Devout]

Demonic Pact is a wonderfully fun spell - for the GM. Waste no time in bending the PC over a barrel with this one for now he'll be needing to send a minimum of 1 sacrifice a month the demon's way. The book says sacrifice a creature, but between you and me no pact-making demon worth his sulphur is going to settle for anything less than human sacrifice. And should the PC ask the demon for assistance or help at all beyond the weekly +4 bonus of the brand he better be ready to pony up whatever the demon damn well wants for it, be it another PC's favorite slave, a heap of jewels, or maybe he's feeling nice and will settle for the sorcerer's ear.

 

[Style]

Thanks Stygian. The pact is one sacrifice per month, most definitely human, but what after that?

I'm just trying to imagine dealing with a demon, and to be honest, I'm having trouble even imagining what that would be like. So how do I set the mood for the player if I can't really imagine it myself? I'm actually thinking about taking a page out of Howard's book, i.e. not describing something terrible, other than saying it is so terrible that words can't describe it!

While we're on the topic, I just read Raven's new spell "Contact Mi-go", and it got me thinking what would it be like to have a pc's demon actually be a mi-go. They would think their "demon" wanted humans for sacrifices, but really they'd be taking their brains and dissecting the bodies. At some point deep in the campaign, you'd have to have PC interaction with a brain of someone who they thought they'd sacrificed. There is certainly potential for an interesting story ark...

 

[thelevitator]

I don't know the specific Conan D20 rules on the subject, but generally speaking, I can think of a few interesting ways to make this pact difficult for the PC.

The first one that comes to mind is to have a sacrifice "not count" in the demon's eyes. It could be that the person the PC sacrificed had already promised their soul to another demon. Make it a rival demon and really piss the PC's demon off. :twisted:

Another thing that stands out to me is how good demons are at making deals and finding loopholes. The demon said one sacrifice per month, but didn't specify which people were to be sacrificed. Perhaps the demon has a "hit list" for the PC, in which every so often, the PC must hunt down a specific person. Or, if you want to be really morbid, you could have the demon force the PC to start sacrificing children, or even friends & relatives of the PC. Perhaps one of the children is the child of a close friend or family member, to add insult to injury.

If the demon is particularly vain, he might want a public sacrifice in his name. This would put the PC in a particularly difficult position.

Another way to make make the pact a PitA for the PC is to have the demon pop up at a crucial moment in the party's adventure, and demand a sacrifice right away which would delay the party in accomplishing their current task.

Then of course, you could always resort to the "fine print" that the PC couldn't see when they initially entered into the pact. The demon already has their signature, or bond, or what have you. It wouldn't be unusual for a demon to "change the game" to his heart's desire.

One way to limit the PC's abuse of his newfound power with the demon could be to scale the type of demand by the demon with the amount of power or frequency that the demon is disturbed. The more the PC relies on the demon, the more outlandish or sinister the payback from the demon.

Like I said earlier, I am unfamiliar with the mechanical restrictions and limitations of this pact in terms of the Conan D20 rules. But maybe some of these brainstorms might give you some ideas on how to make this PC really regret their decision to enter a pact with a demon, because entering into pacts with demons is rarely a good idea. :twisted:

 

[Hervé]

The Elric game is a lot about dealing with demons, so maybe you could find some inspiration this way. No one in my Conan party has ever chosen a Scholar (I must admit I don't encourage them very much!), our campaign being more in "thieves & reavers" type, so I don't know if I'll be very useful.

Anyways, I feel the Demonic Pact shouldn't have only drawbacks, as most of the posts would suggest. Dealing with the forces of the Outer Darkness brings power. There wouldn't be any sorcerer in the Hyborian Age if it wasn't the case. Of course the power of darkness has a price, and most of the time it is the sorceror that get screwed in the end.

Actually, I think that price should depend of your player. If sacrifying people is no big deal for him, then ask more, ask for something more disturbing for your player. It can be body parts of the sorceror like Stygian Devout suggested, or Characteristic points/levels, or even very humiliating sexual favors. Just think of something he wouldn't like at all...

I like the idea that the more you ask to your demon, the steeper the price gets. It's indeed a very good way to balance such power, but always keeping in mind that the character paid for this power in Feats, Edges, Xp or whatever, so the Demonic Pact should also bring great advantages and power.

 

[VincentDarlage]

The newest character in my campaign is a stygian sorcerer with a Demonic Pact. What advice can you give me for running a game with a PC who has a demonic pact? I'd particularly love to hear examples of how you used a demonic pact to great effect within the story of your game.

Thanks!

I had a PC who was a Zingaran nobleman (noble/scholar) who had a demonic pact. He mostly used the demon to help him in his intrigues (sort of like how Don Vito Corleone from The Godfather might use Luca Brasi); essentially he used the demon to make offers no one could refuse. The demon would scare rivals, or uncover material for blackmail, or whatever. In exchange, the demon would insist on some seemingly strange benefits - once he insisted this nobleman install a certain NPC to a particular position, insisted the nobleman impregnate a certain woman, and so on. In essence, the demon had pacts with a lot of people, and if those sorcerers & dabblers requested something the demon knew the Zingaran could provide, the demon forced the Zingaran to provide it.

The Zingaran player didn't have a clue what the demon was up to most of the time, which made all the guessing and second-guessing fun, as the player tried to figure out why the demon wanted some of the things it wanted. But the demon never failed to accomplish the tasks the Zingaran set before it, so the wheels within wheels continued on - until the player moved away.

 

[Ichabod]

Scholar PCs aren't encouraged in our games, though I have one who focuses on Nature so that I can learn more about the sorcery system. One of our PCs is working on getting a demonic pact and, yes, he's a powergamer.

I don't see the great need to try to screw over PCs with demonic pacts. Corruption can accumulate quickly and is difficult to get rid of, so basically the character is doomed to becoming a NPC at a speed correlated to how much the player tries to abuse the pact. PC above is already at 3-4 Corruption, so if he plays predictably, he'll change his mind about the awesomeness of Master, Aid Me! in 10-12 sessions (at most).

I much rather prefer Vincent's example, where the demonic pact provides ongoing story content without being any sort of disruption to play. Sure, there are plenty of adventure hooks in the other examples, but they are intrusive to a degree. And, I would start invoking the various "screw PC over" scenarios if the PC is abusing the pact, but then, there's an infinite number of ways to screw over a PC. Just people finding out that a PC has a pact is enough to cause the pitchfork and torch crowd to come a calling.

The pact should be fun. If it's not fun for the group, then it shouldn't have been allowed in the first place. Just having it be unpredictable (see how often Elric doesn't get help from Arioch) might make it fun. But, I would spend more time on the demon character and how having a pact can make for more distinct stories and less on the myriad drawbacks to having a pact. The demon should be an interesting character and distinct.

For me, being rather antipowergaming and rather uninterested in typical RPG PCs, I'd find the fun concept for the pact to be by accident or foisted upon my character and for it to be undesirable, that the motivation would be to find a way to dissolve the pact rather than use it. Not quite the Elric situation (I'm sure some well known book has such a relationship) but more similar than the "look at my kule p0wrz" I would guess players are attracted to. Of course, even better would be the delicious irony of the demon actually looking out for the character, truly being more of a guardian angel, but the character having no idea of it and thinking of the demon as something bad to be rid of.

 

[VincentDarlage]

But maybe some of these brainstorms might give you some ideas on how to make this PC really regret their decision to enter a pact with a demon, because entering into pacts with demons is rarely a good idea. :twisted:

It is a great idea if you want power. I don't want my players regretting one of their spells. The spell should be fun.

 

[thelevitator]

It is a great idea if you want power. I don't want my players regretting one of their spells. The spell should be fun.

Agreed. I hope my post wasn't giving the impression that I meant that the player should regret the pact. I was referring to the player's character.

 

[Style]

The PC is most definitely getting a benefit from the arrangement. The demon has taught him spells, enabling him to access them at a quicker rate then otherwise possible. Basically, his pact was a quick route to power.

I like the idea of changing the terms of the deal mid stream. I also like the idea of the demon having multiple pacts, and some of his demands from the PC could be to fulfill agreements with others he has pacts with.

"One way to limit the PC's abuse of his new found power with the demon could be to scale the type of demand by the demon with the amount of power or frequency that the demon is disturbed. The more the PC relies on the demon, the more outlandish or sinister the payback from the demon."

I agree with this completely. Hand in hand with this, I think the demon would put the character in positions where he would need to ask for favors from him more and more often. The more you use the demon, the more you need to use the demon, and the more harsh the payment for this use. A downward spiral.

This is helping. Excellent work! Thanks for the feedback!

Another interesting thought occurred to me. I have a new player joining on Monday, and he has the desire to challenge himself by role-playing a mute character. He told me that if it didn't work out for whatever reason, the character could be just short term. I told him I would work with him, and he could have his mute PC. If it wasn't working out, we could kill off the PC, or some how have her disability "fixed". What I didn't tell him was that my thoughts for fixing her disability involved either the sorcerer pc asking the demon to do it, or the sorcerer administering a demonic pact between the mute pc and his demon. Perhaps the demon wants a half human offspring? :twisted:

 

[Style]

I would spend more time on the demon character and how having a pact can make for more distinct stories and less on the myriad drawbacks to having a pact. The demon should be an interesting character and distinct.

Right. I'm thinking any game where you have a pact with a demon should be very distinct! It should be much more than "Yeah, I've made a pact with a demon, so now I have a couple more spells, and I have to sacrifice someone regularly." At this point, that's all it is, which in my mind is not acceptable. Having a demonic pact should be memorable. That's what this thread is all about:

What advice can you give me for running a game with a PC who has a demonic pact? I'd particularly love to hear examples of how you used a demonic pact to great effect within the story of your game.

 

[Krushnak]

I'd find the fun concept for the pact to be by accident or foisted upon my character and for it to be undesirable, that the motivation would be to find a way to dissolve the pact rather than use it.

Thats exactly how i used demonic pact in my game. It was foisted on the entire party. some hated it and were determined to get rid of it asap, the others just saw it as an easy route to power and played their characters to it.

Of course, even better would be the delicious irony of the demon actually looking out for the character, truly being more of a guardian angel

Again thats exactly how i've played the demon. He's no megalomaniac who twists his moustache and tries to kill every virgin he can, he has his own agenda and he's decided the pc's are valuable pawns and so he'll protect them. This has really gotten one of the pc's very paranoid about him, one of the latest shocks being when the demon gave the pc the last couple of materials that he was searching for to make a bane weapon.

 

[Stygian Devout]

Highly recommend Robert Sheckley's short story, "The Demons".

It can be found here

 

[thelevitator]

Highly recommend Robert Sheckley's short story, "The Demons".

It can be found here

That was very cool! Thanks for sharing that!

 

[Vortigern]

I'm curious how this has turned out for you Style?

Or if anyone else would care to share anecdotes, I'm interested?

 

[Style]

I'm curious how this has turned out for you Style?

Or if anyone else would care to share anecdotes, I'm interested?

I need to update the gladiator campaign thread with the last session...

 

[Style]

Ugh. Just tonight a demonic pact ended with the sorcerer being killed by another PC in the party who's character (rightfully) didn't trust him. Story wise, there is nothing wrong with what happened, but player wise, there are bad feelings. The guy playing the sorcerer is like "Well, my next character will kill your character." I said "Ummm, no. Your next character is not going to come into the game with a vendetta against his PC, or quickly develop one for no reason. Just get that out of your head. I'm not going to allow it." "No, my next character will kill him. No big deal. He has to play his character his way. I have to play mine my way. It's just what my character would do." I stopped short of telling him that he was out of the group if he tried to do that. He was upset, and that wasn't the time for reasoning with him. My hope is that he'll cool off and things will smooth over. I've been gaming with both players for 8 years, after all. But if he doesn't come off that stance, that his next character will kill off the PC who killed his last character, I'm going to have to kick him out of the group.

I'll give full details in the Gladiator Campaign thread later this week.

 

[Vortigern]

No defensive blast or demonic intervention to save the sorcerer?

That aside...

Personally... I don't like PVP in a table-top setting. I'm sure you understand why after this event and the hard feelings that are coming from it. Now... I also think people need to be mature about when their characters die. Make a new one, play again.

I'm curious if you think it was completely IC for the other guy to kill your sorcerer? You appear to. That makes me question whether this guy ( the sorcerer ) was being overly blatant and evil in front of the rest of the group which, judging by this outcome, wasn't so evil or into sorcery?

In which case he should have it explained to him, in private, what he did wrong to garner negative attention and why you think he died. But that is just me. Talk him through what lead up to the event and that might help him accept the event rather than just be resentful.

It also sounds like there is some personal contention between these two, or am I wrong? Has the other player ever killed other characters of his?

I've noticed a trend that a lot of new players to conan games still try to make characters that are essentially 'good' or 'heroes' regardless of what type of character they are making or from what origin. The darkness of the setting doesn't touch their character. I feel it is a holdover from 'other games'.

I bring that up because I think it is a trend that contributes to OOC factors leading to sorcerer deaths as it were. Sorcerers are dark and scary people, sure. But they are also an intrinsic part of the setting. Not all of them are out to get 'you' ( specifically ) , even if they are bargaining with demons. Not that letting people know you are bargaining with demons is a good move on the public relations front. ( Bad Idea. )