D&D Feats in Conan

[BlackandGold]

Hi Folks!

I´ve found in Players Handbook 2 from D&D 3.5 some very nice Feats, Melee Weapon Mastery (also Ranged) and Weapon Supremacy...

Melee Weapon Mastery
Prerequisites:
Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, BAB +8
Benefit:
You select either Bludeoning, Piercing or Slashing. Every time you deal this type of damage, you get +2 on attack and damage rolls.

Weapon Supremacy:
Prerequisites:
Every possible Focus/Specialization, Mastery (see above) an being a fighter (soldier in Conan) of 18th level, only chooseable once and for one weapon
Benefit:
+4 against disarming attempts
Using your weapon during grapples freely (even taking full attack)
During a full attack you get for every strike after the first a +5 bonus
Once per Round "Take 10" in place of rolling a D20
+1 to AC (maybe Parry DV in Conan?)


What do you think? Are this Feats too overpowered for Conan or not?

 

[urdinaran]

I like the first one, the second is a bit much.

I have been considering doing Weapon Focus/Specialization as Bludgeoning/Piercing/Slashing. Makes more sense since you can't really count on having your favorite weapon handy in Conan.

 

[Bregales]

Sounds like they're trying to marry weapon specialization from the 2nd edition of AD&D before WotC acquired the company and changed eveything in their 3rd edition release.

IIRC there was a paperback Complete Fighter for 2nd ed. AD&D which opted getting Weapon Specialization in broad weapon groups, very much like slashing/piercing/bludgeoning, but not quite as generous as this three type of melee weapon allocation.

Personally, I'm rather ambivalent about the weapon mastery, weapon supremacy business. Between all the feats the Conan game already has, and it's use of Combat Maneouvers (which I ignore), I don't see the need to import MORE deedle dee feats. But, that's just my reactionary opinion. :twisted:

 

[argo]

Melee Weapon Mastery
Prerequisites:
Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, BAB +8
Benefit:
You select either Bludeoning, Piercing or Slashing. Every time you deal this type of damage, you get +2 on attack and damage rolls.

Well, it's not like anybody has ever *cough* suggested something like this before *cough*

:wink:

Weapon Supremacy:
Prerequisites:
Every possible Focus/Specialization, Mastery (see above) an being a fighter (soldier in Conan) of 18th level, only chooseable once and for one weapon
Benefit:
+4 against disarming attempts
Using your weapon during grapples freely (even taking full attack)
During a full attack you get for every strike after the first a +5 bonus
Once per Round "Take 10" in place of rolling a D20
+1 to AC (maybe Parry DV in Conan?)

Well, at first glance it seems a bit much. However at second glance the prerequisites are stupidly high so it may be balanced. Though I find it hard to imagine who would want do drop that many feats behind plain-vanilla weapon focus in a Conan game.

Later.

 

[urdinaran]

Well, it's not like anybody has ever *cough* suggested something like this before *cough*

:wink:

I've been considering doing it in the following manner:

1-handed Piercing, 1-handed Slashing, 1 handed Bludgeoning, Polearms, 2-handed Slashing, etc.
Kinda how they have it in Dark Ages of Camelot.

 

[quigs]

My group has shied away from weapon focus or specialization as these tend to be more suitable for D&D. They generally only take them as prerequisites for another feat. So making them broader categories is a good idea, since some of the races get attack or damage bonuses with a broad range of weapons already (such as Shemites or Hyrkanians getting a +1 to attack with any "bow").

Iron heroes had something along these lines, where they separated the weapons into descriptors as follows:

Ammunition
Axe
Cudgel (Club)
Cudgel (Hammer)
Cudgel (Mace)
Dagger
Flail
Pick
Polearm
Projectile
Spear
Sword
Thrown

 

[argo]

Well, it's not like anybody has ever *cough* suggested something like this before *cough*

:wink:

I've been considering doing it in the following manner:

1-handed Piercing, 1-handed Slashing, 1 handed Bludgeoning, Polearms, 2-handed Slashing, etc.
Kinda how they have it in Dark Ages of Camelot.

Well, I thought about that too but in the end I decided that using "weapon groups" has more flavor.

"Greetings. Allow me to introduce myself, I am Rinando: Master Swordsman of Kordava."
"Likewise, I'm Murilo but friends call me 'The Knife'"

Later.

 

[Trodax]

Melee Weapon Mastery
Prerequisites:
Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, BAB +8
Benefit:
You select either Bludeoning, Piercing or Slashing. Every time you deal this type of damage, you get +2 on attack and damage rolls.

Question: Does this stack with the bonuses from Weapon Focus/Specialization, so that, if you have Weapon Focus (longsword), Weapon Specialization (longsword) and Melee Weapon Mastery (slashing) you get +3 attack, +4 damage when wielding a longsword? Or is it more a way of widening the benefits from Focus/Specialization? If the former's the case, then I would consider it overpowered at least when compared to Greater Weapon Focus and Greater Weapon Specialization.

Weapon Supremacy:
Prerequisites:
Every possible Focus/Specialization, Mastery (see above) an being a fighter (soldier in Conan) of 18th level, only chooseable once and for one weapon
Benefit:
+4 against disarming attempts
Using your weapon during grapples freely (even taking full attack)
During a full attack you get for every strike after the first a +5 bonus
Once per Round "Take 10" in place of rolling a D20
+1 to AC (maybe Parry DV in Conan?)

Every possible Focus/Specialization?! Do they actually mean that you need to have Weapon Focus/Specialization (longsword), Weapon Focus/Specialization (staff), Weapon Focus/Specialization (spiked chain) etc. etc.? That can't be possible to get even for a 20th level Fighter. Or do they mean that you just need Weapon Focus/Specialization and Greater Weapon Focus/Specialization for your weapon of choice?

I've been considering doing it in the following manner:

1-handed Piercing, 1-handed Slashing, 1 handed Bludgeoning, Polearms, 2-handed Slashing, etc.
Kinda how they have it in Dark Ages of Camelot.

Well, I thought about that too but in the end I decided that using "weapon groups" has more flavor.

I agree; cooler to be a swordsman or axe-wielder than a slashing person.

I liked the groups that argo suggested in that old thread:

Knives: (light and one-handed knives) Dagger, Knife, Yuetshi Knife, Stiletto, Ghanata Knife, Poniard and Zhaibar Knife.
Swords: (one and two-handed swords) Short Sword, Broadsword, Cutlass, Scimitar, Arming Sword, War Sword, Sabre, Greatsword and Tulwar.
Axes: (heavy axe-blades of all sizes) Hatchet, Axe, Battleaxe, Bardiche, Bill and Pollaxe.
Clubs: (bludgeoning weapons of all sizes) Club, Light Mace, Heavy Mace, Staff, Warhammer and War Club.
Spears: (piercing weapons of all sizes) Hunting Spear, War Spear, Javelin, Light Lance, Heavy Lance and Pike.
Missile Weapons: (ranged weapons of all sorts) Hunting Bow, Arbalest, Crossbow, Sling, Hyrkanian Bow, Shemite Bow, Stygian Bow and Bossonian Longbow.
Fisticufs: (using your body as a weapon) Unarmed Strike, Natural Weapon, Gauntlet and Pommel.

I'm guessing thrown weapons would be grouped as the type of weapon they are (a thrown dagger would get to use Weapon Focus (knives) while a thrown spear Weapon Focus (spears))? I would prefer it like that as well, as I think Weapon Focus (thrown) seems like a pretty weird group.

 

[Trodax]

On a slightly related note, do you guys consider the "Fighter/Soldier only" requirement of Weapon Specialization to be sacred ground?
In a homebrew thingie I'm tinkering with (heavily based on the Conan rules), I've been considering just making it available to everyone (like Weapon Focus is) but dropping the damage bonus to +1. Do you think that would make for a balanced feat? Would it intrude too much on the Fighter/Soldier territory?

 

[BlackandGold]

1. Yes, it stacks.

2. No, only the Feats for this special weapon.

3. I think, taking the "Soldier only" from Weapon Specialization would be a drawback for this class. How great, i don´t know...

 

[Trodax]

1. Yes, it stacks.

Well in that case Melee Weapon Mastery is just plain superior to Greater Weapon Focus/Specialization.
A fighter/soldier could take Greater Weapon Focus at level 8 and Greater Weapon Specialization at level 12 to get +1 attack, +2 damage with his longsword or he could take Melee Weapon Mastery at level 8 to get +2 attack, +2 damage with all slashing weapons.

2. No, only the Feats for this special weapon.

OK, I see. That was probably pretty obvious...
As to if its overpowered, yeah it is pretty damn powerful (especially the +5 bonus to all iterative attacks...). OTOH, the level 18 requirement is so high that it will make the feat a non-issue for most games (I've never played any d20 games at that high level). I don't know, I wouldn't use it myself.

 

[argo]

On a slightly related note, do you guys consider the "Fighter/Soldier only" requirement of Weapon Specialization to be sacred ground?

Yes, for three reasons

1) balance, the option to take greater focus/specialization/critical is a big plus in the soldier (aka fighter) column. There is already little enough reason to take soldier into high levels but this is one of them.

2) flavor, Weapon Spec reinforces the flavor of the soldier as a trained and disciplined warrior. The soldier is the guy who spends eight hours a day practicing to be a supurb fighting-man which is why he can know one weapon inside and out.

3) archery, as it stands it is prety hard to boost ranged damage. With these feats however a Soldier makes a fine archer (arguably the best choice for archers). It is a small niche but its theirs.

Hope that helps.

 

[Trodax]

I thought about the Weapon Specialization stuff some more, and I agree with you argo; I'll keep it as Soldier-only.

 

[Yogah of Yag]

I liked the groups that argo suggested in that old thread:

Knives: (light and one-handed knives) Dagger, Knife, Yuetshi Knife, Stiletto, Ghanata Knife, Poniard and Zhaibar Knife.
Swords: (one and two-handed swords) Short Sword, Broadsword, Cutlass, Scimitar, Arming Sword, War Sword, Sabre, Greatsword and Tulwar.
Axes: (heavy axe-blades of all sizes) Hatchet, Axe, Battleaxe, Bardiche, Bill and Pollaxe.
Clubs: (bludgeoning weapons of all sizes) Club, Light Mace, Heavy Mace, Staff, Warhammer and War Club.
Spears: (piercing weapons of all sizes) Hunting Spear, War Spear, Javelin, Light Lance, Heavy Lance and Pike.
Missile Weapons: (ranged weapons of all sorts) Hunting Bow, Arbalest, Crossbow, Sling, Hyrkanian Bow, Shemite Bow, Stygian Bow and Bossonian Longbow.
Fisticufs: (using your body as a weapon) Unarmed Strike, Natural Weapon, Gauntlet and Pommel.

Pommel is not unarmed strike. A pommel is the weighted "bulb" at the end of the hilt, used to balance a sword, etc. It should be included in the Sword category as well as Knife. Anyone trained in the sword would know how to use the edge(s) of the blade, the flat of the blade, the guard, and the pommel, depending on circumstances and distance from the opponent.

Furthermore, all polearms techiques are very similar, so I would group "pole-axes" and spears (including pikes) all together. The RL Master-at-Arms Joachim Meyer grouped quarterstaff, long-spear (read: pike), and halberd together in the same section of his manual.

http://www.higginssword.org/guild/study/manuals/meyer/index.html

I would break the SWORD category into more discrete groupings:

Sword, 1-edged, 1-handed (sabre, cutlass), taught with the Dusack
Sword, thrusting, 1-handed (rapier)
Sword, 1-edged, 2-handed (Anglo-Saxon seax?)
Sword, 2-edged, 2-handed (greatsword, zweihänder), including bastard-swords (hand-and-a-half, warswords, etc.)

I like the idea of Weapon Focus (weapon class) and Weapon Specialization (weapon class), but it gets really complicated and D20 rule-architecture is complex enough now.

I would propose the following:

Weapon Focus (general weapon class) +1 to ATT
Weapon Focus (general weapon class AND one specific member) +2 (does not stack with above)

Weapon Specialization (general weapon class) +1 to DAM
Weapon Specialization (general weapon class and one specific member) +2 (does not stack with above)

And a similar arrangement for Greater W.F. and W.S.

As you can see, this is getting more realistic but REALLY complicated. :shock:

 

[argo]

Pommel is not unarmed strike. A pommel is the weighted "bulb" at the end of the hilt, used to balance a sword, etc. It should be included in the Sword category as well as Knife. Anyone trained in the sword would know how to use the edge(s) of the blade, the flat of the blade, the guard, and the pommel, depending on circumstances and distance from the opponent.

mmmmm, yes I know. But I placed pommel under Fisticufs because that is the grouping that focuse on extreme close quarters bludgeoning strikes - which is what a pommel strike is. Keep in mind this is only for the weapon focus/spec/crit feats, not for basic proficency. Anyone proficent in martial weapons will likewise be prficent in pommel attacks.

Furthermore, all polearms techiques are very similar, so I would group "pole-axes" and spears (including pikes) all together. The RL Master-at-Arms Joachim Meyer grouped quarterstaff, long-spear (read: pike), and halberd together in the same section of his manual.

Ah, but my intention is not to emulate any "real world" school. My intention is to promote style. Part of the point of weapon focus is that the character who takes it becomes known for using a partisular weapon and is thus more of a cool dude. In dnd it is not a problem to limit this to one weapon because PC's almost always have their perfered weapon on hand. In Conan weapons break all the time and replacements have to be found. Thus I want weapon groups but I still want weapon groups that promote style - "I'm a swordsman", "By this axe I rule", "Thog smash with club" etc.

I would break the SWORD category into more discrete groupings:

...

As you can see, this is getting more realistic but REALLY complicated. :shock:

See my comments immediately above :wink:

 

[Yogah of Yag]

argo: I gotcha. I think that anyone who can survive the rigours of Hyboria is a cool dude. One way to realize how truly powerful the PC classes are is to spend several months just playing the commoner class. :shock: It's like curling with 100 lb. free weights then going back to 50.

Let's all be thankful we're not playing duck PCs like some other RPG out there. *hint, hint!* :wink: