Corruption?

[slaughterj]

Is it just me, or is it hard to get corruption unless you are summoning demons? I'm not seeing where you get it for draining PP out of people, engaging in tortured sacrifices, etc. I can understand an actual sacrifice might not result in corruption, but when there is magic effects tied to such, maybe it should?

 

[argo]

Corruption is mostly left in the hands of the GM. This is deliberate, it allows the GM to adjust the tone of the game to be where he wants it. The only real rule is you should never be exposed to a corruption save if you are attacking or fleeing the corrupting influence. Animal sacrifices probably don't warrent corruption but human sacrifices and tortured sacrifices certainly do, for the one conducting the sacrifice and the ones watching (unless they try to stop it or run).

One house rule I use is that whenever a character gains ranks in the Knolwedge [Arcana] skill he must make a corruption save against DC 11 + total ranks in Kn [arcana]. So if a character has 3 ranks and he wants to gain another rank (now 4 ranks) he makes a corruption save against DC 15. This represents the chance that a character might run accross a forbidden tome or the like while doing research nessicary for increasing his knowledge skill. Another house rule of mine is that if you ever engage in a war of the souls or use hypnotism or curses against a "corrupting" creature that you make a corruption save; sort of representing a "the abyss also stares back" thing.

Hope that helps.

 

[slaughterj]

Corruption is mostly left in the hands of the GM.

Where are you getting that from? It seems there are just a few situations which result in Corruption in the book, and no room for others. Obviously anyone can change any game any way they want, but I don't recall reading anything leaving open options for Corruption through other means.

Animal sacrifices probably don't warrent corruption but human sacrifices and tortured sacrifices certainly do, for the one conducting the sacrifice and the ones watching (unless they try to stop it or run).

I would think it would be clearly stated in the book that human/tortured sacrifies result in Corruption, but I haven't seen any such references...

 

[Turim]

I've seen several of these threads go by, and since I haven't really seen anyone represent my view, I'll offer my opinion on Corruption. I'll assume the Corruption rules were written by Ian Sturrock, and I will base my opinion on the books I've read where he is credited (Atlantean Edition and Scrolls of Skelos).

The intention of Corruption can be debated. But all of the cases I've found(although I may have missed some, especially in the creature sections, which I have not read) in AE and SoS that require a Corruption save have one thing loosely in common. Close, peaceful contact with either a corrupting creature, or an object cursed or tainted presumably by such a creature. Since the term Corruption suggests embezzling government officials to me, I prefer to think of it as Taint, but that term has already been used in the D&D Oriental Adventures book .

Sources of Corruption as per AE and SoS:
Peaceful contact with demons (including casting Demonic Pact, Greater Demonic Pact, or Vampire Transformation)
Being drained by a demon in a War of Souls
Peaceful contact with evil gods
Peaceful contact with creatures who have Corruption 10+
Peaceful, pleasurable contact with sorcerer who has Debaucher feat
5 min of conversation with sorcerer using the corrupt form of Projection
Securing and counting a tainted treasure hoard
Living in the glow of Green Fire Stones or Radium Gems for a week
Drinking water from the Zarkheba river

Also some aquired templates (Spawn of Dagoth Hill, Vampire, Child of Jhebbal Sag, Salome, Mummy of Ahriman) add Corruption. And aberrations and new life forms accumulate Corruption continually. All these creatures are arguably tainted anyway.

I know the rules of looting in The Free Companies deviate from the Taint theory, but that book was written by Shannon Kalvar. SK's take on this seems to be that evil acts bring with it Corruption. This is not intended to bash SK, but I personally don't agree with this, because common people have terrible Will saves, and many of the inhabitants in the Hyborian Age would consequently have cracked skulls with swollen brains or look like skin-covered skeletons. As an example, if a mercenary with a relatively low (+5) Will save rapes 4-8 pregnant women, he could easily end up with scales instead of skin. It is also worth noting that horrible spells like Black Plague and Summon Demon do not force Corruption saves.

A sacrifice is required for spells like Witch's Vigour, Eternal Youth, Unnatural Strength, and Vampire Transformation. It is also tied to spells like Awful Rite of the Were-Beast, Dance of the Changing Serpent, Draw Forth the Soul, Dance of the Cobras, Draw Forth the Heart, Invocation of Xuthalla, and Dance of Atali. Yet none of these spells except Vampire Transformation (which has Demonic Pact as a prerequisite) call for a Corruption save. So I disagree with Argo, and Rene and Sutek in the "Sacrifices" thread further down. In my opinion even multiple, tortured sacrifices should not force a Corruption save, unless the ceremony is attended by a source of Corruption.

Of course, it is risky to interpret a still living author, but if whoever wrote the rule wants to shed some light on this, he is welcome to.

 

[slaughterj]

I've seen several of these threads go by, and since I haven't really seen anyone represent my view, I'll offer my opinion on Corruption. I'll assume the Corruption rules were written by Ian Sturrock, and I will base my opinion on the books I've read where he is credited (Atlantean Edition and Scrolls of Skelos).

The intention of Corruption can be debated. But all of the cases I've found(although I may have missed some, especially in the creature sections, which I have not read) in AE and SoS that require a Corruption save have one thing loosely in common. Close, peaceful contact with either a corrupting creature, or an object cursed or tainted presumably by such a creature. Since the term Corruption suggests embezzling government officials to me, I prefer to think of it as Taint, but that term has already been used in the D&D Oriental Adventures book .

Sources of Corruption as per AE and SoS:
Peaceful contact with demons (including casting Demonic Pact, Greater Demonic Pact, or Vampire Transformation)
Being drained by a demon in a War of Souls
Peaceful contact with evil gods
Peaceful contact with creatures who have Corruption 10+
Peaceful, pleasurable contact with sorcerer who has Debaucher feat
5 min of conversation with sorcerer using the corrupt form of Projection
Securing and counting a tainted treasure hoard
Living in the glow of Green Fire Stones or Radium Gems for a week
Drinking water from the Zarkheba river

Also some aquired templates (Spawn of Dagoth Hill, Vampire, Child of Jhebbal Sag, Salome, Mummy of Ahriman) add Corruption. And aberrations and new life forms accumulate Corruption continually. All these creatures are arguably tainted anyway.

I know the rules of looting in The Free Companies deviate from the Taint theory, but that book was written by Shannon Kalvar. SK's take on this seems to be that evil acts bring with it Corruption. This is not intended to bash SK, but I personally don't agree with this, because common people have terrible Will saves, and many of the inhabitants in the Hyborian Age would consequently have cracked skulls with swollen brains or look like skin-covered skeletons. As an example, if a mercenary with a relatively low (+5) Will save rapes 4-8 pregnant women, he could easily end up with scales instead of skin. It is also worth noting that horrible spells like Black Plague and Summon Demon do not force Corruption saves.

A sacrifice is required for spells like Witch's Vigour, Eternal Youth, Unnatural Strength, and Vampire Transformation. It is also tied to spells like Awful Rite of the Were-Beast, Dance of the Changing Serpent, Draw Forth the Soul, Dance of the Cobras, Draw Forth the Heart, Invocation of Xuthalla, and Dance of Atali. Yet none of these spells except Vampire Transformation (which has Demonic Pact as a prerequisite) call for a Corruption save. So I disagree with Argo, and Rene and Sutek in the "Sacrifices" thread further down. In my opinion even multiple, tortured sacrifices should not force a Corruption save, unless the ceremony is attended by a source of Corruption.

Of course, it is risky to interpret a still living author, but if whoever wrote the rule wants to shed some light on this, he is welcome to.

I am with you 100% - my thoughts were of a regular priest-dude for some made-up non-magic religion sacrificing people to an alleged evil god, he isn't and shouldn't get twisted by Corruption any more than anyone doing such things in our day and time would not - and your examples of the mercenary, etc. are even better at illustrating that point. But I do find it interesting in Conan RPG that one can wield a hell of a lot of powerful magic (see the example spells you cited) and that results in no Corruption, so the concept seems of limited concern/use, even for most magic-using PCs, and instead becomes more a flavor factor for twisted mage NPCs of major magical might.

 

[VincentDarlage]

Turim, that is a very well-thought out and succinct post. I agree 100%.

 

[Anonymous]

I have been trying to perfect a "corruption free" sorceror over the last week and have found out that even with the most evil tupe necromancy type spels eg: death touch and black plague, no corruption is possible. BTW GREAT POINT on the mercenaries raping and pillaging. Even Ted bundy did not have scales and fangs. Corruption really should be limited to very extraordinary circumstances.

Party on Garth.