[CONAN] My Spicy Conan Combat Rules

[Supplement Four]

I thought I posted these. They add a lot of spice to combat in the Conan RPG.

First, use Active Defense, where the defender rolls his defense throw. If a character has a Dodge AC 17, his active defense throw is d20 + 7.

Attack Throw 20: Not changed from the game. Critical Threat.

Defense Throw 20: Means that the defense happened in such a way that the defender is allowed a free counter attack.

Attack Throw or Defense Throw 1: Benefactor is allowed a non-lethal attack on his opponent sans the usual Attack of Opportunity that goes along with such attacks. This can be an Unarmed Strike, Disarm, Sunder, Grapple, or Trip. See discussion below.

Attack = Parry Defense: If defender uses a weapon to block, there is a 50% chance that (Attack/Parry number is odd) the two combatants are locked locked together using the Lock Weapons rule. If defender uses a shield to block (or Attack/Parry number is even), then the attacker gets a free Sunder attempt per the optional Parrying Rules on pg. 174 of the 2E rulebook.

Attack = Dodge Defense: Attacker gets a free Trip attempt on Defender.




In all of the instances where a character gets a free combat maneuver attempt, such as an Unarmed Strike, Trip, or Grapple--where the target of those maneuvers usually get an Attack of Opportunity first, the AoO is ignored in these instances. The dice have determined that a "free" opening for that certain type of attack has appeared for a moment during the fighting.

Using these rules, a fighter can get in the occasional slug, elbow, or head butt as an Unarmed Strike during the fighting. A character could take the free Grapple attempt to grab his enemy and slip around him, pulling his dagger to cut the victim's throat (only a non-lethal attack allowed, and that's the grapple attempt...the dagger attack would happen on the next round, when a leathal attack is legal). Or, a character can rise up his knee and kick his enemy to the ground in a Trip attempt. The dice tell us when these things are possible, and the player decides which move serves his character best...should he sunder the weapon? Should he try to kick his enemy to the ground with a Trip, thereby gaining a bonus against his enemy with the opponent on the ground? Should he just land a left cross against that smiling dog's face with his free hand?

All of this leads to more exciting, more realsitc combat.

Add to this the neat Combat Maneuvers that is already in the game (like Use the Battlefield, the various charges, Dance Aside, Riposte, Shield Slams, etc.), Conan combat becomes very lively. Lots of tactical choices for the player. Lots of neat, breath-taking action.

If a player decides to use a Disarm or Trip or some other maneuver mentioned above without the dice allowing the attempt, the standard Attack of Opportunity is used by the defender, of course.

One thing I'd like to add is some variety in defense. A character will naturally use his best defense vs. an attack. Thus, Caelis Redbirth has three defense modes he can use:

Caelis' Parry with his targe - Active Parry Defence d20 + 7.

Caelis' Parry defense with weapon - Active Parry Defense d20 + 4.

Caelis' Dodge defense - Active Dodge Defense d20 + 1.

Obviously, Caelis is always going to parry blows instead of dodge them. And, if he's got a shield, he's going to use it to parry with instead of his weapon.

That's all well and good, but it doesn't simulate cool, gritty, realistic fights as depicted in this clip: Nifty Fight Scene From the Movie "Centurion".


Fighters don't always block with their shields, and they duck and side-step (Dodge) a lot, too.

So, how to get that aspect into the game without unbalancing it? My rules above do a good job of making what you see in the clip happen in a Conan combat. The only missing part is the combination of defense moves. How do you force a player to use an inferior Defense mode?

Thoughts?

 

[Supplement Four]

One thing I'd like to add is some variety in defense. A character will naturally use his best defense vs. an attack. Thus, Caelis Redbirth has three defense modes he can use:

Caelis' Parry with his targe - Active Parry Defence d20 + 7.

Caelis' Parry defense with weapon - Active Parry Defense d20 + 4.

Caelis' Dodge defense - Active Dodge Defense d20 + 1.

Obviously, Caelis is always going to parry blows instead of dodge them. And, if he's got a shield, he's going to use it to parry with instead of his weapon.

That's all well and good, but it doesn't simulate cool, gritty, realistic fights as depicted in this clip: Nifty Fight Scene From the Movie "Centurion".


Fighters don't always block with their shields, and they duck and side-step (Dodge) a lot, too.

So, how to get that aspect into the game without unbalancing it? My rules above do a good job of making what you see in the clip happen in a Conan combat. The only missing part is the combination of defense moves. How do you force a player to use an inferior Defense mode?

Thoughts?

Here's a thought. I dislike adding dice to the mix, but what we could do is throw a six sider die with each attack throw. If the defender can only parry with his weapon or dodge, then a 1-4 on the six sider means the best defense for the attack is whatever the character is good at. If he's better at Parry than he is Dodge, then the 1-4 means a weapon Parry is the best move. A 5-6 means the opposite--the defense with the lower defense bonus.

If the defender uses a shield, the a 1-3 means shield, a 4 means weapon parry, and a 5-6 means Dodge.

The player can choose to use a defense other than what is indicated on the die, but the character would take a -2 or a -4 penalty on the throw.

Thoughts on this?

 

[Supplement Four]

Another thought is to handwave the defense. If Caelis uses his d20 + 7 shield Parry defense mentioned above, it means that most of his attacks are parried that way (say, 60%). 30% are parried using his weapon. And, 10% are dodged.

We could just say this happens and leave it at that.

A character that parries with his weapon would parry 80% of the time and Dodge 20% of the time.

A chracter that prefers dodging would dodge 80% of the time while parrying with his weapon the other 20% of the time.




Those percentages I use could be used with a 10 sider thrown with the attack throw as I mention in the above post.

But, that begs the question: What if a weapon parry is called for but the player decides to dodge? Is there a penalty? Or, does the character get a bonus for defending as the dice indicates?

 

[Supplement Four]

Here's an idea...the d20 Flanking rules can be used--just the part about using shields.

This means that the player determines which way the character is facing. The shield can be used to parry the three squares in front of the character or the flank and the two shield-side front square, but not both. The weapon is used to parry the other side. And, attacks from behind can only be dodged.

Consider that the character is in square E below, facing B.

ABC
DEF
GHJ

The character is right handed, so the shield is carried on the left. H can use his shield to protect attacks from squares A, B, and D. Or, the character can use the shield to protect against attacks coming in from squares ABC, but not both.

The weapon side parry would mirror the shield side parrie. That is, the character using a sword in his right hand would use it for squares A, B, C, or squares B, C, F.

All other attacks must be Dodged.

 

[Supplement Four]

Here's a clean-up of my Spicy Conan Combat Rules.



NOTES
- Use Active Defense.
- Extra attacks provided by these rules do not count against a character's allotment of AoO attempts.
- Fumble victims do not benefit from an AoO against attacks on the Fumble Chart.
- A Counter Attack is a free, immediate attack against opponent.
- An Unarmed Non-Lethal Attack can be a head butt, elbow, kick, punch, bite, knee, or similar attack.
- A Trip can be as simple as a kick to an opponent's gut that knocks him on the ground.
- On the following round after a successful grapple, an attempt can be made to draw a dagger to slice an opponent's throat.



NATURAL 20

20 Attack = Critical Threat per official rules.
20 Defense = Counter Attack.



NATURAL 1

1 Parry Defense = Roll 1d3 on the Fumble Chart.
1 Dodge Defense - Roll 1d3+3 on the Fumble Chart.
1 Attack = Roll 1d6 on the Fumble Chart.

FUMBLE CHART
1. Lock Weapons
2. Sunder
3. Disarm
4. Unarmed Non-lethal Attack
5. Grapple
6. Trip





ATTACK = DEFENSE

Attack = Parry Defense: Sunder.
If defender is using a weapon to parry, then he may make a REF save vs. the tie number to Lock Weapons. Otherwise, a tie means a free Sunder attempt for the attacker.

Attack = Dodge Defense: Unarmed Non-Lethal Attack.

 

[kintire]

I think you should be wary about introducing too many dice rolls into combat on a routine basis. You are alright with the ones that crop up when attack=defense because that will happen pretty rarely but if you are rolling a d6 for every attack to decide what the defence will be, for example, that will tend to slow things down.

I wouldn't worry too much about varying defences. Defences should be viewed as themes not absolutes. When someone parries, they use all resources availiable to them: they do not "Parry with a shield" or "Parry with a weapon" as mutually exclusive options. They Parry, with everything they have including footwork. Similarly, someone Dodging does not stick their weapon behind there back before they jump about. However, someone who is meeting or deflecting attacks with powerful blocks or displacing sweeps, in other words relying on strength, is Parrying, even if they use footwork to get into an advantageous position as well. Similarly, someone who is using speed and finesse to maneuver away from the blow is Dodging, even if that involves a clash of blades as they deftly slide the blow wide.

Also, bear in mind the consequences of forcing people to use their poorer defences. It will seriously weaken some classes, especially soldiers. And frankly, they dodn't need any further nerfing compared to barbarians!

 

[Supplement Four]

I think you should be wary about introducing too many dice rolls into combat on a routine basis. You are alright with the ones that crop up when attack=defense because that will happen pretty rarely but if you are rolling a d6 for every attack to decide what the defence will be, for example, that will tend to slow things down.

The d6 is rolled when a natural 1 appears on the Attack or Defense throw--not every attack.

It's just like rolling on a fumble chart.

I wouldn't worry too much about varying defences. Defences should be viewed as themes not absolutes.

I worked it out by using the optional Facing rules (and making those rules a bit easier to use).

For example....

ABC
DEF
GHJ

The character is in square E, facing square B. If using a shield on his left arm, the character can protect from blows coming from ABC or ABD, but not both. It's the defender's choice.

Therefore, if a defender uses his shield to defend from ABD, and a frontal attack comes in from square C, the only way the character can parry the blow is to use his weapon (because his shield is used for squares ABD).

Given the above facing, the character's front is squares ABC. His flanks are squares DF. And his rear is GHJ. He can only dodge attacks that come in from GHJ.

This isn't quite what I wanted because I allowed a character to always use his best defense vs. one opponent (thus, he would never dodge if his parry is much better than his dodge), but at least it brings some realism to play when there is more than one opponent.

Oh, and I like that the facing rules get rid of that stupid flanking rule needed with a person on the exact opposite side of the target in order to do a sneak attack. That's such a stupid rule. This makes more sense (simply attack from a Rear square).

 

[Supplement Four]

I've tweaked the Spicy Combat Rules some more. Here's the latest version.

Note that these rules are intended for melee, not combat with distance weapons (I may add that later).





NOTES
- Use Active Defense.
- A Counter Attack is a free, immedaite attack against opponent.
- Counter Attacks and Fumble Attacks do count as Attacks of Opportunity.
- Fumble Attacks do not provoke Attacks of Opportunity (as those types of attacks shown in the Fumble Attack Chart usually do).
- An Unarmed Non-Lethal Attack can be a head butt, elbow, kick, punch, bite, knee, or similar attack.
- A Trip can be as simple as a kick to an opponent's gut that knocks him on the ground.
- On the following round after a successful grapple, an attempt can be made to draw a dagger to slice an opponent's throat.





NATURAL 20

20 Attack = Critical Threat per official rules.
20 Defense = Counter Attack (AoO).



NATURAL 1

1 Attack = Roll 1d6 on the Fumble Attack Chart.
1 Defense = Roll 1d6 on the Fumble Attack Chart, but the original attack will usually hit as well.

FUMBLE ATTACK CHART (AoOs)
1. Sunder
2. Disarm
3. Trip
4. Grapple
5. Unarmed Non-Lethal Attack
6. Unarmed Non-Lethal Attack





WHEN ATTACK = DEFENSE

Attack = Parry Defense: Sunder.
If defender is using a weapon to parry, though, he may make a REF save vs. the tie number to Lock Weapons in place of the Sunder. Failure means the attacker proceeds with the Sunder attempt against the defender's weapon.


Attack = Dodge Defense: Trip.

 

[Supplement Four]

And, here's a movement rule I'm going to try out in my campaign next game session.



COMBAT DANCE - Melee combat is all about movement and position with relation to your foe. Each combat round, an attacker must move at least five feet (into an adjacent square) or suffer the penalty of not maneuvering to one's best advantage.

This rule is best used if you use miniatures or some sort of tactical combat grid. I use a big sheet of graph paper, magic marker, thumb tacks to represent characters, all on a large, table-sized cork board. If you don't use some physical represenation of characters and enemies, then this rule will probably not be useful to you.

If an attacker does not perform the Combat Dance on his turn, then he runs the risk of being caught flat-footed on any successful attack by his foe that resuts from a natural roll of 15+.





Example:

Caelis does not move from his current square on his attack. Following him is Silaigne, his foe, who takes advantage of Caelis' lack of footwork to land a blow on him. On Silaigne's attack, if it is a natural 15 or better, then Caelis is considred flat-footed for that attack.

 

[MidnightSun]

It's looking interesting and I'm considering implementing something like thsi for my campaign. However, I have never mastered Conan before. This makes me want to have as few rules as possible. This is tempting to add, but scary.

Attack = Dodge Defense: Trip.

This one worries me. It makes dodging weaker than parrying. Dodging seems to have higher repercusions.

I'm also not sure about 'FUMBLE ATTACK CHART'. Failing a dodge can lead to my opponent trying to disarm me, which is puzzling. I'd rather have a system that is more simple. More frequent unarmed attack attempts. Maybe the table could use a higher unarmed strike chance versus manevouer chance and the attacker would pick which he wants to do. 50/50 ? Maybe I'll keep just the unarmed attempts, I would like a very simple system.

 

[Supplement Four]

It's looking interesting and I'm considering implementing something like thsi for my campaign. However, I have never mastered Conan before. This makes me want to have as few rules as possible. This is tempting to add, but scary.

What I've done in my game is add rules slowly. I'm just now adding this stuff, after 4 sessions. My suggestion to you would be to play it as written first, then move in rules you want later, once you and your players are comfortable with the game. Tell your players that you are showing them the rules gradually. That's what I do. Then, on a new game session, I'll say, "OK, tonight, here's something new for the game...."

This is how I'm teaching all the combat maneuvers to my players. I think they're an important part of the game, and I want them in the game. But there's a lot to learn when learning a new d20 system. So, I just find opportunities to show my players a new rule after they're comfortable with the ones I've already taught them.

Attack = Dodge Defense: Trip.

This one worries me. It makes dodging weaker than parrying. Dodging seems to have higher repercusions.

I struggled with this a bit, too.

First off, both the Parry options are already in the game. The Sunder is an optional rule when ties happen, and Lock Weapons is a combat maneuver. There's nothing in the game for a tie when the defender is Dodging.

I thought about rolling on the Fumble Chart, but a tie really isn't a fumble.

Sunder, Disarm, and Lock Weapons all speak to a Parry response and don't seem appropriate for a Dodge. That leaves Unarmed Non-Lethal Attack, Grapple, and Trip.

Of those, Trip seems to speak to Dodge the best. Although I thought about going with Unarmed Non-Lethal Attack, I went with Trip for few reasons.

There are three "safeties" to think about here.

1 - The Trip is an "attempt to trip". The attacker has to make a dice throw. Normally, the tie means that the attack hits, so replacing this with a trip attempt is a move in the defender's favor. He's not taking real damage--instead, he might get tripped.

2 - If you read the Trip, it's not entirely in the attacker's favor. If the attacker fails to trip the defender, then the defender gets to attempt to trip the attacker (the Fred goes to trip Bob, but Fred gets tripped himself in the process). So, what we've done here is taken away a solid hit that would do damage to the defender and replaced it with a chance the defender or the attacker will be tripped.

That's definitely a better outcome for the defender--definite damage vs. a chance to be tripped + a chance to trip your attacker.

That's why I went with Trip.




I see what you're saying, though. It's hard to Sunder a weapon in one blow--it will take multiple attempts. And, Locking Weapons is much preferrable to being Tripped and prone.

The Dodge tie is more serious, but to balance that out, it comes with the chance that the defender will turn the tides and trip his attacker.




If you still think the Dodge tie is too dangerous to PCs, then I suggest changing it to Unarmed Non-Lethal Attack, or just leave it as a normal attack (with the Parry rule in place).

I'm also not sure about 'FUMBLE ATTACK CHART'. Failing a dodge can lead to my opponent trying to disarm me, which is puzzling.

Originally, I went with this...

1 Parry Defense = 1d3 on Fumble Chart.
1 Dodge Defense = 1d3 +3 on Fumble Chart.
1 Attack = 1d6 on Fumble Chart.

Fumble Chart
1. Sunder
2. Disarm
3. Unarmed Non-Lethal Attack
3. Trip
4. Grapple
6. Unarmed Non-Lethal Attack


This way, Parry Fumbles led to Sunders, Disarms, or Unarmed Non-Lethal Attacks. Dodge Fumbles led to Trips, Grapples, and Unarmed Non-Lethal Attacks. And, an Attack fumble could lead to any of them, with two chances at Unarmed Non-Lethal Attack (which seems appropriate).

I'd rather have a system that is more simple.

The reason I went to the straight D6 throw was to keep combat varied and chaotic. And, I do think it is more simple to just throw a d6 than it is the way I have the chart above that I threw out.

Can I picture a Dodge where a Sunder happens? Sure. A defender jumps to his left, and the attacker sees a chance to slam down hard on the weapon in his foe's right hand when his foe is focussing on his move, not where his weapon is held.

If I go with the chart I wrote above in this post, I'll end up with only a few of the combat outcomes because most characters either Dodge or Parry all of the time. They don't switch between the two. They go with their biggest defensive modifier.

So, for me, the d6 throw for all Fumbles seems the way to go.

More frequent unarmed attack attempts.

I think you're right. Maybe I'll use the chart above but roll d6 for an fumble, be it attack, parry, or dodge. This provides an Unarmed attack one third of the time.


EDIT: LOL. I just looked at my notes, and I already went with this chart--

Fumble Chart
1. Sunder
2. Disarm
3. Unarmed Non-Lethal Attack
3. Trip
4. Grapple
6. Unarmed Non-Lethal Attack

But, I am sticking with rolling the d6 for all natural "1" throws (for Parries, Dodges, and Attacks).

It's just more simple to throw the 1d6--if you throw a natural "1", no matter what the throw is for, it means your opponent throws 1d6 on the Fumble Attack Chart and can, at his choice, proceed with that attack.

 

[Supplement Four]

I've flipped-flopped back-n-forth on whether Counter Attacks and Fumble Attacks should be counted as Attacks of Opportunity.

My first thought was that they shouldn't, because it would be easier to play not having to "count" them. Then, I thought, yeah, they should be AoO's because this would limit their use and protect the PC. For example, if Fred gets unlucky and rolls a "1" on his Attack Throw, receives the Counter Attack, then rolls another "1" on that Defense roll. Most characters only get one AoO per round, thus Fred would only suffer the Counter Attack and nothing for the Fumble Attack.

But, that's a problem huh. If Fred rolls a "1" for the Counter Attack, it will most likely mean (unless there is a tie) that Fred's attacker hit him. That's actually a worse outcome than rolling again on the Fumble Attack Chart, since Fumble Attacks are all non-lethal.

Therefore, these attacks cannot be counted as Attacks of Opportunity. And, anytime a "1" is thrown on an Attack, Parry, or Dodge throw, the Fumble Attack Chart is consulted.

 

[MidnightSun]

I've decided to tweak your ideas into my liking. Here's what I plan on using.

20 Attack = Critical threat
20 Defense = Counter Attack (AoO) (also an option to make this attack unarmed only)

Natural 1 = Provokes unarmed attack

WHEN ATTACK = DEFENSE

Attack = Parry Defense: Sunder.
If defender is using a weapon to parry, though, he may make a REF save vs. the tie number to Lock Weapons in place of the Sunder. Failure means the attacker proceeds with the Sunder attempt against the defender's weapon. - (possibly remove the sunder with weapon and go straight into locking and leave sunder on shields only)


Attack = Dodge Defense: Trip.

Here's an idea.

Attack = Dodge Defence - opposed grapple checks. If a person is attacking effort's are equal to dodging effort by his adversary I can see them getting close and grappling each other. Sort of like boxer's lock in when they get very close.

 

[Supplement Four]

20 Attack = Critical threat
20 Defense = Counter Attack (AoO) (also an option to make this attack unarmed only)

If players have a choice, why would they go unarmed when they can counter attack with their weapon and do more damage?

And, as I note above, it's fine making the Counter Attack count against a characters allottment of AoO's, but I don't think it works to count the Unarmed Attack on a Natural 1 as an AoO unless the Unarmed Attack is in addition to the normal attack.

Natural 1 = Provokes unarmed attack

Thus, if Caelis rolls a 15 Attack and Thrallan rolls a 1 defense, does Caelis get his attack and the unarmed attack? Or, does Caelis only get the unarmed attack (which robs him of the normal attack he should get).

In my game, if Caelis rolls a 15 Attack and Thrallan rolls a 1 defense, then Caelis rolls on the Fumble Attack Chart for the result.

And...Is this a non-lethal unarmed attack? Or can the benefactor take the -4 penalty and do real damage with his unarmed attack?

In my game, all of the results of rolling a Natural 1 are non-lethal attacks.

WHEN ATTACK = DEFENSE

Attack = Parry Defense: Sunder.
If defender is using a weapon to parry, though, he may make a REF save vs. the tie number to Lock Weapons in place of the Sunder. Failure means the attacker proceeds with the Sunder attempt against the defender's weapon. - (possibly remove the sunder with weapon and go straight into locking and leave sunder on shields only)

How do you determine is a shield was used? Using the facing rules? If a defender has a shield, he is assumed to use it, and thus, if a character has a shield, he cannot Lock Weapons?

Attack = Dodge Defense: Trip.

Here's an idea.

Attack = Dodge Defence - opposed grapple checks. If a person is attacking effort's are equal to dodging effort by his adversary I can see them getting close and grappling each other. Sort of like boxer's lock in when they get very close.

I'd rather keep the rule simple and not vary it from what's written in the book. What you're describing already happens, anyway, from the way the Trip is written. If the trip attempt fails, then the defender gets a chance to trip his attacker.

 

[Supplement Four]

Latest Version...



NOTES
- Use Active Defense.
- A Counter Attack is a free, immedaite attack against opponent.
- Counter Attacks and Fumble Attacks count as Attacks of Opportunity.
- Fumble Attacks do not provoke Attacks of Opportunity (as those types of attacks shown in the Fumble Attack Chart usually do).
- An Unarmed Non-Lethal Attack can be a head butt, elbow, kick, punch, bite, knee, or similar attack.
- When taken as a Fumble Attack, a character cannot take the -4 penalty in an effort to do lethal damage with an unarmed strike.
- A Trip can be as simple as a kick to an opponent's gut that knocks him on the ground.
- On the following round after a successful grapple, an attempt can be made to draw a dagger to slice an opponent's throat.





NATURAL 20

20 Attack = Critical Threat per official rules.
20 Defense = Counter Attack (AoO).



NATURAL 1

1 Attack = Roll 1d6 on the Fumble Attack Chart.
1 Defense = Roll 1d6 on the Fumble Attack Chart, but the original attack will usually hit as well.

FUMBLE ATTACK CHART (AoOs)
1. Sunder
2. Disarm
3. Unarmed Non-Lethal Attack
4. Trip
5. Grapple
6. Unarmed Non-Lethal Attack





WHEN ATTACK = DEFENSE

These special attacks when ties occur do not count as Attacks of Opportunity. These attacks replace the normal, lethal attack.

Attack = Parry Defense: Sunder.
If defender is using a weapon to parry, though, he may make a REF save vs. the tie number to Lock Weapons in place of the Sunder. Failure means the attacker proceeds with the Sunder attempt against the defender's weapon.


Attack = Dodge Defense: Trip.