Commnents on the S&P 1st to 2nd Edition Converison guide

[lastbesthope]

Well I've just read the 2 parts in S&p RPG #36 and #38.

I have to say while I appreciate the articles for what they are, they don't strike me as a conversion guide, more of a comparison.

Mostly it seems to me to be "Here's what we've done with it compared to what it used to be" with may be a little of the reasoning explained.

That's all well and good, but I don't want a comparison, I want a conversion guide.

I want a document that I can sit down with a copy of, a copy of my 1st Edition character and a blank 2E char sheet and convert my character to 2E.

Maybe that's more than most people want but I'll keep harping back to the fact that we were promised that all 1E supplements would be compatible with 2E, at the moment, we're a long way off in my opinion.

I hope the situation improves, I have a complete set of 1E books and I want to be able to use them in the 2E ruleset.

Anyone else have any thoughts?

LBH

 

[Chernobyl]

I haven't read the new S&P Roleplayer, but I agree with you LBH.

I think we need 2 things:

1) a description of how to convert 1st edition character classes/prestige classes to 2nd edition. I'm not sure how much work this entails, it could be as simple (though probably not) as a table describing the influences available to the classes. Influence didn't exist in 1st edition, so its important to see how the prestige classes stack up against each other. Some conversions are fairly obvious: Listen and spot would convert to notice, but what do to with the points spent in the other?

2) A resolution of what to do about characters who have progressed further than 10 levels in 1 class. This was a pretty big change, and the extra abilities and such need to be worked through.

Chern

 

[Mouth of Sauron]

Well I've just read the 2 parts in S&p RPG #36 and #38.

I have to say while I appreciate the articles for what they are, they don't strike me as a conversion guide, more of a comparison.

Mostly it seems to me to be "Here's what we've done with it compared to what it used to be" with may be a little of the reasoning explained.

That's all well and good, but I don't want a comparison, I want a conversion guide.

I want a document that I can sit down with a copy of, a copy of my 1st Edition character and a blank 2E char sheet and convert my character to 2E.

Maybe that's more than most people want but I'll keep harping back to the fact that we were promised that all 1E supplements would be compatible with 2E, at the moment, we're a long way off in my opinion.

I hope the situation improves, I have a complete set of 1E books and I want to be able to use them in the 2E ruleset.

Anyone else have any thoughts?

LBH

I agree with you completely. As you said in the rulemasters thread Mongoose did make a promise; a promise they still haven't met.

 

[lastbesthope]

Nice to know I'm not alone.

I mean the copmparison is a good start, but its more fluffy than what we need/want, we need the conversion crunch if you will.

LBH

 

[PhoenixAndy]

I mean the copmparison is a good start, but its more fluffy than what we need/want, we need the conversion crunch if you will.

The problem is that the comparison "fluff" will only really be useful to anyone interested in the conversion process itself, whereas the "crunch", which we don't yet have, will be useful to anyone who has both 1st & 2nd ed stuff, which is most people, by now.

 

[Chernobyl]

Well, now that I'm back I sat down and read Bryan's article..wow.
This may sound a bit harsh, Bryan, but after reading that the only conclusion I can draw to convert a 1st edition character to 2nd edition is to make a new character of the same total level.

Chern

 

[B_Steele]

This may sound a bit harsh, Bryan, but after reading that the only conclusion I can draw to convert a 1st edition character to 2nd edition is to make a new character of the same total level.

And for some (my group included) that was the way to do it. Using the skill comparisons in the back of B52E to mix and match the various new skills, placing the points where you need to; and by re-arranging the feat bonuses that may have changed (another article will talk about changes to feats and skills, I believe), but keeping all of the relevant information (class level up to 10th, ability scores, etc.) the characters are actually really easy to convert over.

That has been why it has been so odd to be writing up those conversion description articles. With the exception of the big speedbumps (Ranger to say the least), the process was rather self-explanitory in B52E.

I don't know if it will help anyone, but this is what my group did as one of our gaming sessions to bring everyone to 2nd Ed. I would consider it the closest thing to a "conversion map" as I can conjure.

1> Copy over all class levels. Anything over 10th level in any given class was allowed to be put elsewhere - even in Prestige classes that they might qualify for. Re-apply all class features and add up total Influence the character should have for its levels. Re-calculate hit points using the new system.
2> Check on any racial changes (this was the one that took some time, hence why races got the first 'Conversion Article').
3> By following the skill comparisons in the back of B52E, re-apply the current ranks from the old skill to the new skill. Since some of them would max out quickly, so we created a pool of unspent ranks to be applied to class skills AFTER all skill converting was finished.
4> Copy over all feats that were still applicable; creating empty feat slots to be re-applied if necessary (some old feats didn't make it, prerequisites may have changed, etc.).
5> For Prestige Classes and 1st ed sourcebook Feats, if a class ability gave a bonus to a skill that no longer exists , it simply got applied to the new skill equivalent (ie +2 Jump turned into +2 Athletics).

And that was really it. Each character took maybe twenty to thirty minutes to convert, and we have been playing hitch-free with them ever since.

Now, that being said...there is one big issue with the Technomage; and I do not have ANY good answers there for them yet. I do know that the Freedom Station book gives 2E versions of the Raider and Raider Ace to be converted to, and if Ian keeps asking me to I'll keep converting stuff over...but the SP articles are really just a fact-log to try and show players what to look for when they are using the B52E book to convert.

I wish I had a better solution, but alot of the conversion process is like Chernobyl said - rebuild the character using all the same information and the new book. With some things (starships, for instance) there is no good equation that was used to convert: a new system was created and everything was sort of rebuilt using it.

I hope I did not totally ruin everyone's day, but the Conversion Guide articles are meant merely to help players and GMs through the Conversion process...not step-by-step it out for them. That's what the pages in B52E were for, after all.

I've rambled too long, and I have to rake my yard today...ugh...so, I hope you guys understand what I was trying to do with the SP articles, and that the conversion process is not nearly as much "this-equals-this" as some people might have liked.

Cheers all,
Bry

ps- Chern: not harsh at all, you should see the guff we get over on the RQ forum.

 

[Chernobyl]

Thanks Bryan, The article is good info, but as you said, not a "this equals this" that some people are looking for. I suppose those who want to continue a 1st edition campaign to 2nd edition will have to come up with something "specific" on their own.

Chern

 

[lastbesthope]

And even if the articles suit for converting characters over, that still leaves, ships, ship weapons, equipment, personal weapons, feats not in the core books to name a few other categories.

While I appreciate your work Bry, I still think Mongoose is currently falling well short of the compatibility we were promised.
Also, my apologies for not contacting you directly about this sooner.

LBH

 

[Gabriel_Luna]

Actually that reminds me of a question I had, and not one I expect a firm answer to. The only 1e book I own is the Zocalo book, because the 2e one seems a bit light on...well on "stuff". But then I started wondering if the prices are similar between editions. (I also am not sure if I'm paying my PCs too much, too little or spot on, but that's another topic for another thread) Anyone know if the prices in the Zocalo book fit in with the prices for equipment in the 2e book or no? I haven't had the time to make a detailed comparison.

 

[Neo]

Actually that reminds me of a question I had, and not one I expect a firm answer to. The only 1e book I own is the Zocalo book, because the 2e one seems a bit light on...well on "stuff". But then I started wondering if the prices are similar between editions. (I also am not sure if I'm paying my PCs too much, too little or spot on, but that's another topic for another thread) Anyone know if the prices in the Zocalo book fit in with the prices for equipment in the 2e book or no? I haven't had the time to make a detailed comparison.

As far as editions go it was the system that got tweaked not the fluff.. as such prices should be fine irrespective of source.

 

[PhoenixAndy]

I should really hope that the fluff didn't change from 1E to 2E, given that it's a licensed product, which isn't changing.

 

[lastbesthope]

No changes in the fluff that I've seen, it's the crunch conversion I'm worried about.

LBH

 

[Gabriel_Luna]

Actually, I didn't mean whether a PPG changed in price from one to the other, I don't care about that...I more meant whether, say, the advanced medical kit in Zocolo was priced appropriately, compared to the 2e medkit. But it's not important, really. Back on topic!

 

[Neo]

I should really hope that the fluff didn't change from 1E to 2E, given that it's a licensed product, which isn't changing.

I wasnt referring to fluff in the commonest sense, i.e as in background info, history, factions etc...

but instead things like prices are "fluff", where as a weapons damage dice would be "crunch". etc..

 

[PhoenixAndy]

I should really hope that the fluff didn't change from 1E to 2E, given that it's a licensed product, which isn't changing.

I wasnt referring to fluff in the commonest sense, i.e as in background info, history, factions etc...

but instead things like prices are "fluff", where as a weapons damage dice would be "crunch". etc..

Ah, but given that the setting wouldn't have changed between editions, I wouldn't expect the minor fluff, like prices of stuff, to have changed either.

Not significantly, anyway.

 

[Neo]

but instead things like prices are "fluff", where as a weapons damage dice would be "crunch". etc..

Ah, but given that the setting wouldn't have changed between editions, I wouldn't expect the minor fluff, like prices of stuff, to have changed either.

Not significantly, anyway.[/quote]

Which is what I confirmed , but as it turns out that wasnt what he was asking anyway heh

 

[Waylander.]

Count me in for the conversion stuff !

 

[Traveller-61]

Can I add the Vorlons and Shadows to the conversion list please?! You know who those Ancients hate being left out :lol:

Seriously though there has not been much that I can use so far for them to come from the 1st ed dark to the 2nd ed light.

DW

 

[lastbesthope]

Just read the most recent conversion guide article in s&P 42 Roleplayer.

I must say I am very h appy with it, this is the kind of crunch we need.

Now Mongoose have made a giant leap in the right direction, we've still a lot to see, there's a lot of stuff, ships and classes still to convert from 1E to 2E, but this is more like it.

LBH
(Very pleased)