I've always kind of thought that it should have a cc roll to succeed. After all it is an order that relies on the crew carrying it out. (depending on the level of automation on the ship I suppose). But I have to agree with EP, I'd quite happily see this special action gone, or at least be harder to pull off.
Close Blast Doors
- Thread starter No. 1 Bear
- Start date
nekomata fuyu
Mongoose
I'd go with the half AD approach. I think the main problem with the SA is on ships where you only want to fire one weapon system anyway, and so gain extra survivability at next to no cost.
GhostRecon
Mongoose
Chronos.
Why don't we make it sort of like BFG's "Brace for Impact?"
You get half AD in the turn you use it, and the next turn you can't use SAs (Representing your crew "recovering" from having closed all blast doors and "buckling up" and such, so they suffer from significantly reduced efficiency). Could possibly raise the save up to 4+, too (Just like BFI) but... I don't think that's completely necessary.
Regardless, it makes CBD more "reactive" in nature. You use it when you see a ship that's going to get the crap pounded out of it, and you'd like to see it, maybe, survive. Compared to now, where it essentially gives a brand new armor save to some ships for little to no loss of firepower (Demos, Chronos, etc).
Why don't we make it sort of like BFG's "Brace for Impact?"
You get half AD in the turn you use it, and the next turn you can't use SAs (Representing your crew "recovering" from having closed all blast doors and "buckling up" and such, so they suffer from significantly reduced efficiency). Could possibly raise the save up to 4+, too (Just like BFI) but... I don't think that's completely necessary.
Regardless, it makes CBD more "reactive" in nature. You use it when you see a ship that's going to get the crap pounded out of it, and you'd like to see it, maybe, survive. Compared to now, where it essentially gives a brand new armor save to some ships for little to no loss of firepower (Demos, Chronos, etc).
emperorpenguin said:
Just wanted to point out that ships with only 1 weapon can't fire at all if they use CBD...
And I really don't much care for halving AD. Makes the Demos/Vorchan even more powerful when using it as compared to something like a WS or other ships with weapns in only 1 or 2 arcs.
For those whoi play a lot of ships with several arcs (EA, Narn, Brakiri...)
Just think of what halving AD would do to the Drakh. How many beams do they have with more than 2 AD?
emperorpenguin
Mongoose
so being able to fire all your guns at half AD is useless but only firing one gun isn't? :roll: hmm dodgy logic there....
heaven forbid that the SA would actually make you consider if it is worth using where currently it can be a no-brainer
heaven forbid that the SA would actually make you consider if it is worth using where currently it can be a no-brainer
Taran said:
not looking to change the special order but...............
how does the Demos get harder :? At present you have either full weapons or on CBD 10 AD TWL DD, with this version you would have 5 AD TWL DD when reloading?
low level Drakh ships would be much better off as at present they can not fire at all if on CBD but that as I understand it was intentional? 1 AD is better than no AD - they will then have CBD, Dodge 4+ and GEG...............
CZuschlag
Mongoose
1). Just a question about the proposal: round up on AD, or down? For ships like the Drakh DDF, Narn T'Rakk, and Abbai Tiraca, it's an important question.
2). Another vote in favor of such a change, or even both (as combined with tschuma's idea -- although I would think you should be able to continue the Close Blast Doors order indefinitely)! I hated several special rules changes, and this was one of them. Its return on investment was a 33% increase in survivabilitiy, and, if you had one main gun and a few afterthought guns (like the Chronos!) it increased the value of your ship by appx 32% -- way too much. The others with changes I admit to despising are Launch Breaching Pods and Shuttles, All Stop and Pivot (I maintain I'm still right about these!), and Concentrate All Firepower (I admit to being wrong about this one).
EDIT: Da Boss,
Absolutely, it's an increase to the Drakh. A major upgrade, especially in that it would dramatically increase the chance of the Raiders getting to engage a target ship. Such a change may be too powerful in the case of the Carrier (which just wants to survive until the end of the fight, then emerge and kill off all the remaining Skirmish ships). The Nightmare of layered defenses that you list for the Drakh Light Raider may be bad, but keep in mind its offensive output would be expected to be 1.505 damage and crew, total. For a Skirmish ship, that's a crime. If you fire at a CBDed Light Raider with a heavy weapon, you're either massively outsinked (possible!), or need to seriously reconsider your targetting priorities.
Such a rule with CBD might even make the Drakh Escort Cruiser viable. Well, OK, yeah, it wouldn't -- it's an atrocious ship -- but it would make it less horrible (I would have loved it to have a couple more pulse dice around and substantial Escort and Antifighter capability like 5; then, I'd take it!).
2). Another vote in favor of such a change, or even both (as combined with tschuma's idea -- although I would think you should be able to continue the Close Blast Doors order indefinitely)! I hated several special rules changes, and this was one of them. Its return on investment was a 33% increase in survivabilitiy, and, if you had one main gun and a few afterthought guns (like the Chronos!) it increased the value of your ship by appx 32% -- way too much. The others with changes I admit to despising are Launch Breaching Pods and Shuttles, All Stop and Pivot (I maintain I'm still right about these!), and Concentrate All Firepower (I admit to being wrong about this one).
EDIT: Da Boss,
Absolutely, it's an increase to the Drakh. A major upgrade, especially in that it would dramatically increase the chance of the Raiders getting to engage a target ship. Such a change may be too powerful in the case of the Carrier (which just wants to survive until the end of the fight, then emerge and kill off all the remaining Skirmish ships). The Nightmare of layered defenses that you list for the Drakh Light Raider may be bad, but keep in mind its offensive output would be expected to be 1.505 damage and crew, total. For a Skirmish ship, that's a crime. If you fire at a CBDed Light Raider with a heavy weapon, you're either massively outsinked (possible!), or need to seriously reconsider your targetting priorities.
Such a rule with CBD might even make the Drakh Escort Cruiser viable. Well, OK, yeah, it wouldn't -- it's an atrocious ship -- but it would make it less horrible (I would have loved it to have a couple more pulse dice around and substantial Escort and Antifighter capability like 5; then, I'd take it!).
No. 1 Bear
Mongoose
halving the AD dice would be a great change. Now i oly need some time to test it out.
emperorpenguin
Mongoose
so the SA would no longer be a no-brainer and you actually would need to cost evaluate, that's a good thing
The old 5+ save is pretty strong, in our house rules with our version of a redundancy, when the 5+ save is taken you can't stop crits. This knocked it on the head pretty good with it's CQ test, sucks to fail & not stop crits.
Maybe with the standard version, give it CQ & then say no damage control that turn and maybe the next.
Maybe with the standard version, give it CQ & then say no damage control that turn and maybe the next.
GhostRecon
Mongoose
My suggestion was 4+ save, half AD, no special actions/damage control next turn...
I probably missed it, but what is your redundancy rule?
I probably missed it, but what is your redundancy rule?
It's basically the crew acts for redundancy so we have no crew score as such, 19 crew becomes 2, 8 crew becomes 1, 145 crew becomes 15 eg first number + 1 = the score.
Also we have modified crit chart, bigger crits take more to stop , not enough "crew" then you can't stop it. Even still 6-6 ship explodes needs 4 to stop so only big ships can stop it. Crew reduced to 0 & then you are skeleton crewed. We have found the games to be quicker, less book keeping with only set of hits to reduce & bigger ships last/ operational longer so destroy each other quicker. Some crits reduce the "crew" so Ka Bin Taks aren't invincible. You don't have reduce the crew if you take crit instead of avoiding it except for the actual crew crits which can't be avoided.
Haven't had played a lot with ancients but at the moment they repair all crits at end of turn not next. Whitestars get critted out as they can't stop big crits with paltry crew so regen not an issue with no crew score as such.
It was a way we thought to show that big ships with lots of hits/crew should be able to withstand a lot.
Was kinda important to make sure the 5+ wasn't to easy otherwise explorers would running around on it all day. Works for us
Also we have modified crit chart, bigger crits take more to stop , not enough "crew" then you can't stop it. Even still 6-6 ship explodes needs 4 to stop so only big ships can stop it. Crew reduced to 0 & then you are skeleton crewed. We have found the games to be quicker, less book keeping with only set of hits to reduce & bigger ships last/ operational longer so destroy each other quicker. Some crits reduce the "crew" so Ka Bin Taks aren't invincible. You don't have reduce the crew if you take crit instead of avoiding it except for the actual crew crits which can't be avoided.
Haven't had played a lot with ancients but at the moment they repair all crits at end of turn not next. Whitestars get critted out as they can't stop big crits with paltry crew so regen not an issue with no crew score as such.
It was a way we thought to show that big ships with lots of hits/crew should be able to withstand a lot.
Was kinda important to make sure the 5+ wasn't to easy otherwise explorers would running around on it all day. Works for us
