Cimmeria, by Lawrence Whitaker

I've been spending a lot of time between the covers of one of Mongoose's last Conan offerings, Cimmeria, and if I had to pick one word to describe the work, I'd have to choose "subtle".

What I mean by that is that you really have to dig into the book to find its worth. Some books, you just flip it open to a random page, look scan it a bit, check out the table of contents, and spend some time on any obvious "special features" that you can find. Doing that, you can sometimes tell the quality of a book--or, at least, whether you think you'll like the book or not.

Cimmeria is a different sort of book. If you don't dig into it and find the "hidden gems", you'll probably have a negative or neutral opinion of the work upon first glance.

Is it a perfect Conan book? Nope. There's a few areas where I'd like to see some greater detail. For example, instead of spending about 3 pages (precious pages, in a book that totals 134 pages) on Cimmerian wedding traditions (how often will that come up in a game?), I would have liked to see those pages dedicated to something like greater detail about what happens on the Field of Chiefs once the bloody spear is passed around.

Maybe a little more time could have been spent describing how Cimmerians view the non-warriors in the tribe: the tanners and butchers and leatherworkers and smiths, etc. I'd have liked to see a list of jobs that every clan needs. A big section on the different types of warriors and hunters and scouts accompanied by a list of that needed to sustain a clan and village. It's a lot easier to forget about the tanner than it is the smith or the scout.

A section on Cimmerian-specific equipment, armor, and weapons is missed.

Plus, I was expecting a little something on Cimmerian smiths, the Secret of Steel, and all that. The book gives little in that regard.

I was also expecting to read a bit more on Atlantis, but there is nothing in the book about the Cimmerian Atlanean heritage that you don't already know being a Conan fan.

The Bothan diagram on pg. 15 is really neat. I would have liked to have seen other illustrations like this throughout the book.

So, yes, the Cimmeria book is lacking in some regard.

But, on the other hand, if you do dig into it an read it, you will find that you haven't wasted your money. There is gold in this book for those who are willing to sift for it.



The book's biggest strength is that it provides a line here, a thread there, and idea over there, that sparks your creativity and gets you to thinking about life in Cimmeria. Throughout all the sections of this book, there are fantastic details that provides you with just enough to make your Cimmeria game world "real".

You're not spoon fed this greatness. It's not apparent on a quick scan. As I said i the beginning of this review, this type of stuff is presented in a subtle fashion.

For example, Whitaker does an excellent job of describing the different major clans that call Cimmeria home. There's the type that you know from the Conan stories, but there's also other Cimmerians who stray from the norm. I love the story of the Grath and their degrading, cursed culture. When I read the For-GMs-Eyes-Only box that details the true story of Nuadha and her fate, I was horrified. I said to myself, "You won't see that type of stuff in most fantasy role playing games". I'm glad Mongoose didn't censor it. That type of grit reminds you that you are playing in Howard's Cimmeria--not the lite, PG version of the Hyborian Age.

Scattered throughout the book, hidden within the paragraphs of different sections, there are tidbits of really neat, usable stuff that can be grown into some very interesting Cimmerian adventures. I'll give you some examples of what I'm talking about:

The svartheim, a race of charcoal-skinned, flesh-eating dwarves who inhabit the Black Mountains.

The different cultures of the different clans of Cimmeria--much more diverse than what you'd think, presenting self-mutilating savages, nomadic and semi-nomadic tribes, to what you'd think of as "normal" Cimmerians, based on Conan and his background.

The holy numbers of 3 (representing the 3 parts of the human soul: earth, wind, and sky); 9 (the average size of a family unit; the number of months of gestation); and 27 (which is 3 x 9, the average size of a Cimmerian war party).

That's all cool stuff that a GM can drop on his players, bringing just enough detail to the game world to make it interesting and seem real.





Where the book fails: In my opinion, the book fails by spending too many pages on non-relevant material that is not likely to show up in a game. Cimmerian marriages is presented on 3 pages. This should have been condemned to a column--half a page. There are several pages devoted to things like Earthquakes, Storms, Quicksand, Rockfalls. While needed, I think the author, again, should have condensed this material to make room for stuff that was missed and probably should have been i the book (see above).



Where the book succeeds: If you take the time to read the book, you will find a ton of neat "details" to use in your game. This is perfect fodder for the imagination, giving you ideas to expand upon and create a gameworld that your players will be intrigued to explore. Also, these "details" give the GM an all-around education of the place that helps him narrate the adventure. It brings "culture" to the gameworld, and it's believable culture in that it shows you many areas where the cultures differ.

What you are given is the right type of clay. In order to use the book successfully, you've still got to take that clay and make it into something. This requires work. But, that's exactly what this type of sourcebook is supposed to bring to a game--clay for the GM's imagination to mold into something that the players will be "wow-ed" by.

On that level, the book succeeds.
 
I bought the book when it was released and I found it rather interesting too.
Actually, I've rarely been disapointed with anything that Loz wrote. I even feel he's one of the best writers in the gaming industry these days. Most of his work is worth a look, so don't be shy!
 
Hervé said:
I even feel he's one of the best writers in the gaming industry these days. Most of his work is worth a look, so don't be shy!

Wow. That is, indeed, high praise.

I can't go that far. I think the book omits some things that should have been obvious inclusions, and as I said above, I think some areas (like Cimmerian marriages and rockslides) gets too many pages at the expense of other topics that should have been expanded upon.

The "hidden gold" I mention above is, to me, what makes the book worth its purchase price.

For example, look at the description of The Morrigan: "The Morrigan's symbol is the hooded crow, and any Cimmerian catching sight of one of these birds is apt to utter Morrigan's name and spit thrice, to avert any doom she might lay upon him. Killing a hooded crow is considered to attract considerable ill fortune and hence all crows and ravens are exempt from Cimmerian hunts."

That's some neat stuff. A creative GM can use stuff like that. It's this type of thing that, when used correctly by the GM, can make Cimmeria seem to be a real place to the players. Good writing.

And, the "spit thrice" can be connected with the three sacred numbers mentioned in the front section of the book: 3, 9, and 27.



OTOH, it should have been a no-brainer to include an example Cimmerian village/town in the book. I would expect a half page map showing a typical layout, then have various locations numbered, showing the different services and job required to keep a town running. The tanner's place is located the farthest out of town because of the smell. The smith may be close to the center of town.

The example town would also be tied to one of the Clans that Whitaker wrote about (which he did a fantastic job writing about).



My review in the OP is long, but the short of it is: The book is worth the purchase price, but it won't blow your socks off. I'd give it a "C" (scale of A, B, C, D, F).
 
Supplement Four said:
OTOH, it should have been a no-brainer to include an example Cimmerian village/town in the book. I would expect a half page map showing a typical layout, then have various locations numbered, showing the different services and job required to keep a town running.

Sometimes authors do this, but Mongoose doesn't include it in the book. I don't know if Lawrence did or not, but I have often included sample villages, cities and temples in the sourcebooks I have written, which were not in the book as published. Maps cost money to have cartographers make them professional, so it may cost Mongoose more than the return on the book to do the maps.

Not sure if Lawrence had them in his manuscript or not, but I just wanted to explain that even when they are part of the manuscript, Mongoose doesn't always use them (for example, I had sample temples for most of the religions in my manuscript for Faith & Fervour which were not produced for the final product).
 
VincentDarlage said:
Not sure if Lawrence had them in his manuscript or not, but I just wanted to explain that even when they are part of the manuscript, Mongoose doesn't always use them (for example, I had sample temples for most of the religions in my manuscript for Faith & Fervour which were not produced for the final product).

Even if the sample temples are rought sketches on notebook paper, why not have them available for download--as additional freebies--to enhance the worth of the book?

I know I'd like to see them. I'd print them out and keep them with my copy of F&F.

I bet I'm not the only one.
 
Fine Job Vincent!!!

Don´t you mind if I take the city maps and give´em a pro look? Of course, I´ll send you again and I specify that are your works.
 
Here's something that needs to go in the errata (and could possibly be clarified by Lawrence, if you're listening!).

With the Grath, there is the story of Nuadha. Part of the description involves the Grath and the Nangh clan. But, the story changes when, instead of the Nangh clan, the Nachta clan is referenced in Nuadha's story.

So...which clan is it? The Nachta or the Nangh?

After reading "The Truth of Nuadha", I can see either being used. The Nangh are somewhat close to the Grath, on the Hoath plain, but far enough away not to be a direct neighbor. So, they'd fit with Nuadha's story.

Then again, the Nachta are on the opposite border, an extreme distance away, besides being one of the most ruthless, feared, and war-fevered clan in existence. Because of that, they'd fit the Nuadha story--especially if the originator of the story didn't want to be questioned (or find his facts hard to check).

As a GM, I know I can pick either. But, I'm curious....which clan is supposed to be referenced in the story of the Grath and Nuadha?
 
OK, this is crazy. Check this out, and tell me if you see anything wrong here.

The Cimmeria book provides some stock warriors of various level. I'm looking at the 1st level Barbarian provided in the book (I'm afraid to examine the higher level NPCs with greater scrutiny).

1st level Barbarian Warrior

STR 12, DEX 17, CON 13, INT 8, WIS 9, CHA 8

Hide +11
Jump +7
Listen +2
Move Silently +11
Spot +2
Bluff +2
Handle Animal +4
Hide +2
Intimidate +4
Knowledge (Geography) +0
Listen +2
Move Silently +2
Ride +4
Spot +2



First off, I'm not sure Knowledge (Geography) +0 is needed in the listing. And, shouldn't that be Knowlege (Local) +2, because it's a background skill?

Note how Hide, Spot, and Move Silently are listed more than once, with different modifiers?

And, as for the other skills, the character only has 12 skill points to use. Even with his racial/circumstancial bonuses, he can't make those skill modifiers.

Even if he had the skill points to achieve everything on the list, he can't get Hide +11 with this character. He gets +3 from DEX; He can put 4 ranks into it at 1st level; and he get a +2 circumstance bonus in Cimmeria. At max, he can have Hide +9.

This is totally screwed up. The book was edited by Nick Robinson. What were ya doing, Nick? Were ya not checking these things?
 
dude with a 1st level guy w/ HIDE : 12, that bro must befrom the Cimmerian clan MacNinja!

Pretty crazy stuff!
Glad to know that the Proofreading department was never fired from 2004!!!!
 
Supplement Four said:
Even if he had the skill points to achieve everything on the list, he can't get Hide +11 with this character. He gets +3 from DEX; He can put 4 ranks into it at 1st level; and he get a +2 circumstance bonus in Cimmeria. At max, he can have Hide +9.

While the stats are obviously messed up, he COULD get a +11 if he has the Stealthy feat. However, I looked up the stats in my copy of the book, and he only has one feat (when he should have two, one for 1st level, one for taking a favoured class).

He gave him shield proficiency as his one feat? Not fighting-madness or something more useful? WTH? Barbarians are already proficient with shields...

I don't get any of his feat choices. The 3rd level sample has two different feats (blind-fight?), and the 5th level has two different yet (a 5th level Cimmerian barbarian should have four feats). The 8th level one has just one feat (Diehard and Track are bonuses given from the class)... and, wow.

(The Oracle and Blind-Bard stats in the book were created by me, btw, so hopefully they lack as many errors).

Plus where did he get the stats? He put a 10 in STR (with a racial +2)? I always start out with one of these arrays for NPCs:

Elite Array 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8
Non-Elite Array 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8
Standard Array 11, 11, 10, 10, 10, 10

He didn't use ANY of those arrays. 17 in Dex? For a race of noted hill-climbers?

Anyway, here are some sample Cimmerians I made up this morning (just for you guys on these boards): http://rapidshare.com/files/405416024/SampleCimmerians.doc.html
 
VincentDarlage said:
Anyway, here are some sample Cimmerians I made up this morning (just for you guys on these boards): http://rapidshare.com/files/405086333/SampleCimmerians.doc.html

And, I just downloaded them to print out and use in my game.

Thanks man! :lol:
 
You should re-download it at http://rapidshare.com/files/405416024/SampleCimmerians.doc.html. I found two mistakes - plus I added a few elite Cimmerians to the document.
 
VincentDarlage said:
You should re-download it at http://rapidshare.com/files/405118960/SampleCimmerians.doc.html. I found two mistakes - plus I added a few elite Cimmerians to the document.

And, that I did. Thanks again!
 
I've got a question. Maybe Vincent can clear it up.

In his (quite excellent, BTW) Return to the Road of Kings, Vincent discusses the basical political units on Cimmeria: Tribes and Clans. But then, nothing else is said about the Tribes.

Are the Tribes meant to be a collection of Clans? So, if I look at which Clans are allied with each other, are those, taken together, considered a Tribe?



Tribes aren't even mentioned in the Cimmeria book, but a lot of detail (big chapter) is relayed about the clans. In Return to the Road of Kings, too, Vincent discusses some major clans but says nothing more on the tribes.


What gives with the tribes?
 
Page 77 of Return to the Road of Kings.

"A tribe is comprised of several clans, or families. Each clan has its own clan chief. A tribe is ruled by a tribal chief."

By the way, I have a new set of Cimmerians for you. This one uses multiclass options from Hyboria's Fiercest.

http://rapidshare.com/files/405416019/MultiClassCimmerians.doc.html
 
VincentDarlage said:
Page 77 of Return to the Road of Kings.

"A tribe is comprised of several clans, or families. Each clan has its own clan chief. A tribe is ruled by a tribal chief."

Yes, that's where I saw the reference to the tribes, but nowhere in Return to the Road of Kings, or in the Cimmeria book, is there a listing or an example of a tribe. Both books seem to focus on the clans.

So, what is a tribe? Several clans. OK. So, do I look to see which clans are allied with each other and consider that a tribe?

In the Cimmeria book, the Canach clan is allied with the Callaugh. Are the two of them, together, considered a "tribe", or are these just two allied clans.

And, if two clans in a tribe breakout in bloodfued?

Both Cimmeria and RttRoK are written with a focus on the clan, with the only information about a tribe included in that sentence you quote above.

So the question is: Can you give me an example of a tribe using the clans in RttRoK or the Cimmeria book?





By the way, I have a new set of Cimmerians for you. This one uses multiclass options from Hyboria's Fiercest.

http://rapidshare.com/files/405416019/MultiClassCimmerians.doc.html

That's awesome! You can bet this will be put to use in my current campaign.
 
Back
Top