Cheap imports/ebay, good for the hobby?

[Wing Commander]

A lot of folks are buying bits and pieces cheap off of ebay and from the States at the moment, the sad thing is that most of them don't realise that by trying to save a penny or 2 they are actually killing the hobby they profess to love.
Most LGS need to work very hard to get by, they are more than a retail outlet as they are a club, meeting place and venue, they are also likely the only place you'll see new products and get to play against other opponents and experience games that you'd normally not encounter. They are also the largest marketing and sales tool for every game manufacturer in the world, without which they'd sell a lot less product and go bust themselves.
By purchasing off of "cheap" ebay stores and US imports who are trying to simply make a fast buck what you are actually doing is directly threatening the LGS who cannot compete with zero overhead businesses. Simply put, the LGS go out of business (and many have in recent years) and they'll be closely followed by your favourite lines as they'll no longer have any outlets... This is the reason that a large number of highly responsible Manufacturers will only supply their product to "bricks & mortar" stores as they realise that they are safeguarding their own future as well.
There are several LGS owners /managers who all post on these forums and they'll all tell you the same thing, it's not because they simply want your money, it's because they have a passion for the hobby and understand that the current trend toward saving a penny or 2 will, ultimately, kill the hobby.
Talk with your local LGS, most of them will "negotiate", particularly if you're making a larger purchase or a foray into a new system, I know that we (ID Gaming) certainly do and most of the shops I'm familiar with do as well. So, come on guys, keep your hobby alive - support your LGS!

 

[TenaciousB]

That's all well and good, and I whole-heartedly agree with you 100%, but there are some guys out there that like to rip people off.

There was a guy who ran a gaming club in Belfast out of his store, and his prices for things were just slightly higher than retail. It wasn't so bad for the odd mini here and there, but if you were buying in bulk, it was considerably more than buying over the internet. Consequently, the guy didn't sell that much once people had cottoned on to his antics, and went out of business.

It's a double-edged sword - people want to support their LGS, but they want to do it at competitive prices.

 

[Captain_Nemo]

It's not just the competitive prices. The online stores get supplied by the same distributors, there are a lot of online stores. My LGS could not get BF:Evo for weeks because there wasn't enough product out there, Online Shops can sell below retail because they don't have to pay the Rent, Electricity, Gas Taxes, etc. that the BricknMortar shops have to cover. The supply goes to who ever gets their order in first and consequently, If I want something bad enough I will go to the Internet on occasion.

The retail industry is going through some major changes and it may be a long time before it stabilizes.

 

[Warjammy]

We had a similar problem (among others that need not be mentioned) at our LGS. Our owner couldn't get his hands on the product he wanted from the distributors, they would tell him it was available, then it wouldn't show. We did get in with a good online distributor who actually supplied the store at wholesale, but by then things were on there way down. I no longer have a LGS thats, well, local, but I do store up the old gaming requirements and make a trip to the nearest for bulk buys, just to 'keep it real'.

 

[H]

well, my LGS sucks, the service is dire, the owners are fools. . . ;-)
Just kidding Wingie ... as long as I get my latest order soon! (I'll come in and collect it, no need to post)
It's an ongoing problem, a lot of online stores tend to drop the price making them an attractive purchase option especially if you want to buy, say, a Fleet box, an army deal, or anything pricey, I found a place selling ACTA fleet boxes for £35 quid! (mine have come from Forbidden planet, Fanboy, and Mongoose direct) Personally, I like going in an dbrowsing and most of my purchases come from that, you loose that with an online store, and how many online stores would have given me the discount ID did when I bought my russian box for FOW, none probably!

 

[Admiral Phlop]

On the other side of the arguement is that alot of people sell off their models due to not playing the game anymore. E-bay provides those individuals a place to get rid of some of their stuff and pick up some cash for another game. My LGS takes forever to get stuff in and I may need the model for a game the next month. If the LGS wants to stay in business then they might consider that they need to keep the customer happy. I am very happy with my LGS in the product they carry and the service they provide.

 

[tneva82]

In general I agree. As long as there's LGS that provides stuff I do want I try to get stuff there(and assuming LGS isn't just trying to rip us off like case mentioned in the thread).

It's only if I can't find stuff from LGS(either due to rarity of product line or simply product being out of production like majority of epic models...) I look online stores(somebody tell me where to find LGS in Finland that provides GHQ models :lol:. We don't even have online store selling those...).

I might end up paying more but supporting LGS is worth it IMO. It's not like I don't have enough metal and plastic to paint anyway :lol:

Too bad LGS's simply aren't able to carry everything I would want. As mentioned if no Finnish online store sells GHQ models what hope would LGS store have...(though pretty models. Wish some brick&mortar store in Finland WOULD carry those...Would be receiving lots of my money!)

 

[phoenixhawk]

This same argument has gone on on every board and forum I'm part of. I tend to support the LGS where we play Mechwarrior and I buy most of my stuff there instead of online because it is the right thing to do. However, for this game, ACTA, the closest place that sells figures is 2 hours away and I only just visited it for the first time the other day. They have a lot of cool stuff, but I think I bought most of the stuff I was interested in and the rest is not fleets I play. For ACTA I usually order online for stuff simply because it is the best way to get what I want sent to my house. I've tried the LGS but they always have a difficult time getting minis in for either ACTA or Warmachine and so it is easier to just get what I need online. Does that make me bad? No. I buy what he sells through the LGS and the other games I play I get form other sources since I am usually the only one in my (isolated) area that plays those games and it is not worth the money or stock space for the LGS to cater simply to one person.

I agree that people need to support the places they play. If you play there, pay there is the adage. And I don't think anyone has a problem with people getting a few things online but it's the people who shop exclusively online and then some to the store and don't spend a dime but demand places to play and complain about paying a small fee for an event that are the problem.

Chris

 

[Hash]

I but *most* of my stuff (I've bought the odd thing from on-line stores too ) from:

The Games Shop (Esdevium Games)
6 Wellington Street
Aldershot
Hants
GU11 1DZ
Tell: 01252 311443
Contact Vince Henshaw

I like it because I can come in and have a look at everything, possibly try it out to if they have a demo going (although the store is small for that...no way as cool as ID Gaming!) - If they don't have something they can always order it. I have bought plenty of stuff from ebay as well but usually 2nd hand stuff that's already been painted (I suck at painting) or is generally unavailable from a brick n mortar store (like B5 Wars Full scale fighters)...not that I haven't been tempted to go for cheap fleet boxes! I usually end up buying *something* at least once a fortnight that I don't really have to get from there. It does take real discipline though to go for a £55 or more fleet box when you can find the same product sold for much less elsewhere...admittedly it's not looking at things in the long term but who does about anything these days?

I think the solution is that retailers have to get more inventive and give people more reason to come into the store and buy rather than shop online...tournaments and the like have always been a useful way of doing that (I spent a stupid amount of cash of WS Carriers at the last Wargames Workshop tourney I was at...although I resisted at the ID Gaming one even though they were cheaper and offered a discount!)

Any other suggestions? Painting lessons? Model assembly tutorials? How about store loyalty cards

 

[Naranik]

If I am going to do a significant purchase I usually tell the manager of my LGS and see how close he can get. If he gives at all I usually go with them. If nothing else it helps them get to a larger volume and this helps their discount.

 

[Axeman]

My LGS doesn't stock ACTA on a regular basis, and forces you into ordering thru them. This is not fiscally efficient for my limited gaming budget so I am forced to go either to online catalogs or eBay for my gaming needs.

 

[Admiral Phlop]

For tneva82 GHQ caters to the mail order business before filling orders to dealers and LGS. This has been what I have been told by a LGS that I frequent. This is why they stopped carrying that particular line, it would take way too long to arrive. So finding a store that will carry GHQ may be hard. Also, I have heard rumors that China is cutting back on tin exports. There is a price increase coming possibly more than one.

 

[tneva82]

So finding a store that will carry GHQ may be hard.

Yep. I have found few Europe dealers though they seem to be online stores but I would sooooooo much love to have brick&mortar store nearby which sells them.

No credit card kinda limits options(thankfully one store accepts good old bank transfers...) which aren't that big with GHQ models anyway

But I can understand why b&m stores don't carry that line. Stores have hard enough time without taking on line like GHQ that likely isn't major seller(especially in Finland...).

Still. One can always dream about it :lol:

But agreed on phoenix hawks about the problem.

 

[Valen is my name]

i buy off the internet from a company other than mgp not because i want to save money, but because i have no lgs that sells ACTA! I dont like the idea of brick n mortar shops going out of business because i buy off the internet, but its the only place i can find them. If anyone knows anywhere near Southend in Essex that sells ACTA id be willing to pay a bit more, if only for the convience (of seeing before i buy, having it at the time of purchase, not having to rely on royal mail etc.) but i cant! And i would not be surprised if there were a lot of people in Britain who have the same problem, and it probably is not much better in America.

 

[Abraxas]

Whatever you do, DO NOT ORDER FROM AoG!

I made an order January 25th; sent 2 emails and have heard NOTHING. Never mind the fact that I already PAID $30 for the models... :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

 

[CZuschlag]

LGS has long had a standing auction that supports the LGS and fills the eBay niche.

Auction is twice per year, and, while recently it has been infested with "eBay wh***s" who snap up all the deals, is mostly populated by people who just want to game. Those with stuff they don't want sell -- and what they get in exchange is LGS store credit, with which they -- tada! -- buy yet more stuff.

Turns the thing into a gold mine of the previously-thought-to-be-unobtainable. Things I have seen include:

-- Unpunched copies of Avalon Hill's Titan (wow, watch the price go!)
-- Whole painted GW armies
-- Just the boats from Broadsides and Boarding Parties to minis players for serious gold.... Arrrr!
-- Monster oldies like Wacht Am Rhein
-- People competitively bidding on a copy of Kill Doctor Lucky
-- Civ and Advanced Civ mint bundled together (why not separate?)
-- More copies of Risk than you can shake a stick at ... unfortunately
-- One incomplete copy of Kriegspiel that seems to be making its way through the entire LGS community one gamer at a time

and I haven't been around for collectible card day --- where I assume dozens of Moxes have been sold.

While eBay-like, it turns the product around into LGS-credit, which, in turn, supports the store. A very reasonable comprimise. And Lord Knows, they sell a ton of candy and pop on auction weekend.

 

[Jal]

no gaming stores near me.... and i`m not heading all the way too Belfast just to find they dont have what i want ( unless i switch to GW...... NEVER!! ).

 

[TenaciousB]

no gaming stores near me.... and i`m not heading all the way too Belfast just to find they dont have what i want ( unless i switch to GW...... NEVER!! ).

GoF, just out of interest, are u located in Northern Ireland?

 

[Locutus9956]

While I can appreciate that online stores bussiness are indeed hurt by online shops undercutting them, I don't think its entirely fair to go on all 'Internet shops are the devil! they must all die!'.

I'm all for supporting LGS given the chance but let's consider a few things:

1. Gaming is an expensive hobby. Justify it however you like but look through your collection of minis and rulebooks for a minute and work out just how much you've spent on it over the years. Be honest now. I'm betting theres a fair few of you out there who could have spent more on gaming than you have on rent/mortgage payments..... (I for my part dont THINK I've certainly spent ALOT over the years ).

Now it's all well and good to say 'support your local store' but alot of gamers simply cant AFFORD to spend more than they already do on gaming and still have, quite litterally, TONNES of stuff they still would like to buy. If theres a cheaper option, 99% of them are going to take it.

2. 'I can order it in for you'. This phrase more than anything else, costs LGS sales in my oppinion. I don't live particularly near any gaming stores, there is one near where I work though. I do generally order most things Im going to buy online (especially larger purchaces, see point 1 ). I DO however often stop in at the shop to just browse and buy a few bits and pieces. When I go to buy something from a shop though rather than online the main thing I crave, and that for me anyway, more than offsets the price difference, is the immediacy. I LIKE being able to get stuff NOW.

Now if its going to take a week to get an item ordered in, then from where I'm standing, as a consumer, if its CHEAPER to have said item delivered directly to my home in the same (or often less) time, then I'm sorry but I'm going to order it online. I'm not out to screw the LGS, I'm simply trying to get the stuff I want as soon as possible, for the cheapest cost to me. I'm an impatient bugger though and speed matters more to me than cost generally so I'll usually buy it from the shop if its there.

Ok. Now none of the above should be taken in any way as a criticism of gaming stores, who I know, are doing their very best to provide stock the stuff that people want and sell it at the best prices they can afford to but I'm just saying that you cannot expect the customers to buy stuff just to be helpful. And to say that LGS are the foundation of all gaming is pushing it a little, not all game shops are gaming clubs too, and indeed I personally have never actually gamed in a game shop since my brief attendance of GW game nights at a local shop when I lived in London (to be fair, they were, for a GW store very good actually and a nice bunch not overun with munchkins for a change ).

Local Gaming Stores ARE an important part of the hobby, but online shops are in my oppinion ALSO an important part. They allow people who might otherwise not be able to afford to get into gaming to do so, and allow players access to stuff that they would not otherwise be able to get hold of!

I'm sorry if this all sounds a bit heartless but there it is.

As an aside WC, do you do all your grocery shopping at local farm stalls and markets etc or do you go to the supermarket? It's all well and good to preach 'support the local shops' but do YOU? (please dont take this personally, but your original post just struck me as a tad onesided)

 

[Locutus9956]

ps. I should add that unfortunately for me I'm not exactly particularly well favoured towards what WOULD be my LGS as I have certain issues with its owner (at least in one of the two shops, and the other is frankly pretty much GW and Warmachine only (and of course magic: the extortorting (but that's another story, dont even get me STARTED on CCGs.....)

pps. As another comparison, look at the music industry or the video game industry.

It's far cheaper to buy online, and in alot of cases you dont even have to wait for deliver, you can just download what you buy then and there, but still most people I know still buy in the shops. Why? Because its quicker and most people when buying luxury items they want (as opposed to necessesities (though I know some people for whome gaming supplies might classify as the latter ) want them as soon as humanly possible.

If LGS want to compete with online stores they need to be convenient. And unfortunately for many people thats just not the case.