Charges.

[livingancestor]

WE played a game last night where a unit of PLA infantry charged a unit of British infantry. They were in range, but not visible t the beginning of the charge move. We allowed the charge because there is nothing in the rules that says you must be able to see an opponent to charge them. I know that most games require that you be able to see the target unit in order to charge it, but the BFE rules don't state it.

What is the rule? Must you be able to see an enemy unit to charge it?

 

[Locutus9956]

You dont need LOS to charge, but bear in mind that if you charge a unit thats you cant see initially that unit is considered to be in cover from you and thus if it gets to react to you BEFORE you make your close combat attacks.....

 

[Mr Evil]

what he said lol

ps can you make your dogs head shrink a little please

 

[livingancestor]

Yeah, I gotta figure out how to do that. It isn't that large on other forums. Kind of impressive though. Isn't it? A noble beast.

Where does it mention in the rules that a unit in cover reacts first? The cover section, or the charge section. I don't remember seeing it.

 

[Locutus9956]

Under reactions.

A unit may only make one Reaction in every turn, no matter how many times an enemy moves close by or shoots it. If a unit is in cover and is
reacting to a Charge action, it may make the Reaction after the target has moved but before any Close Combat dice are rolled.

Needless to say this is a VERY important rule as it makes charging a unit in cover potentially very dangerous if you dont supress them first

 

[MongooseMatt]

You dont need LOS to charge, but bear in mind that if you charge a unit thats you cant see initially that unit is considered to be in cover from you and thus if it gets to react to you BEFORE you make your close combat attacks.....

No

You can indeed charge a unit without needing LOS.

However, it will only get the bonus for being in cover if it actually _is_ in cover. not being in LOS at the beginning of the charge does not grant the cover bonus!

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

RE: your avatar, the forum doesn't auto-resize avatars AFAIK (some do). I can shrink it down for you if you want.

 

[livingancestor]

Great. Thanks for the answer about the reaction in cover. It wasn't the case in our game, so I didn't screw Costampede (just his unit).

Lorcan Nagle

Do I need to e-mail you the picture file for resizing? Thank you for the help. Although I hate to diminish the manificent beast. Kinda like shrinking Mount Rushmore, don't ya know.

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

no need, here's the resized version

the URL is http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/lorcan_nagle/bassethound_stubbs.jpg

you can hotlink to it there, or save to your hard drive and upload to the mongoose site via the avatar option in your profile

 

[livingancestor]

Thanks for your help. Now maybe Mr Evil won't pick on me.

 

[costampede]

So what will constitute a unit in cover when a charge takes place, if they cannot see the unit they are charging?

If you cannot see them when you charge, when you come around the corner does the unit get to react then and counts in cover?

I see this charge thing not having to see your target get out of hand.

If I hide my guys behind a wall and you cannot see me but can charge me, and when you come around the wall to make contact and I cannot react that seems alittle wrong. The first thing my guys would do is unload thier weapons if an enemy came running around the corner to assault me.

I'm new to the game and just want to understand the rules compleatly.

 

[Turtle]

Um, if a bunch of guys came pouring around a corner bent on braining you that you hadn't seen around that corner, it's likely you'd be dead before you could react.

Also remember that the movement distance for charging right now is 4"-5" that's a really small charge range and easy to stay out of. So usually if an enemy tries to charge you directly, and doesn't get into contact with the first action, you react to that first charge and shoot him.

The being in cover to get a reaction rule means that the enemy has to clamber over your cover to reach you, slowing him down and tripping him. allowing you time to react.

 

[dsfrankevo]

Under reactions.

A unit may only make one Reaction in every turn, no matter how many times an enemy moves close by or shoots it. If a unit is in cover and is
reacting to a Charge action, it may make the Reaction after the target has moved but before any Close Combat dice are rolled.

Needless to say this is a VERY important rule as it makes charging a unit in cover potentially very dangerous if you dont supress them first

Suppressed squads still get to make a reaction - but can only make a move action as a reaction while suppressed

It is important to suppress before you charge - a good example of good rules imitating live

 

[Dorb]

Or completes action within 10".

 

[costampede]

Um, if a bunch of guys came pouring around a corner bent on braining you that you hadn't seen around that corner, it's likely you'd be dead before you could react.

The same thinking goes the other way. If I am hiding behing a wall or something and out of sight, how can you charge me if you do not know I am there, when your guys started in a building out of sight also?

I'm just saying that it takes some of the game play out of it, if as a player you know where my guys are but according to the rules we are both out of sight, yes you might have a general idea that the enemy is in that direction but you are not going to go charging off around corners looking for them, and if you did they would hear you coming a get in prepared positions to defend.

 

[Locutus9956]

well to be fair as pointed out for the distances were talking (less than 5" you might well not have TIME to fire before the enemy are on you) Remember if they move first to get within charge range for a second action you can react to the first move and fire at them or even if they are out of sight (say they move up to the corner of a building with their first move and then charge round with their second) you could still react to the first move (which ends within 10") and just run away to get out of range (of course this may be what they want if theyve got other people who can then shoot you out of cover.....

The more I play this game the more I the way suppression and reactions work

 

[Paladin]

Um, if a bunch of guys came pouring around a corner bent on braining you that you hadn't seen around that corner, it's likely you'd be dead before you could react.

The same thinking goes the other way. If I am hiding behing a wall or something and out of sight, how can you charge me if you do not know I am there, when your guys started in a building out of sight also?

Unless you are a special forces unit doing infiltrate I don't see any reason not to allow it. If you've established LOS with one unit or others you are as good as "spotted" by all units. My guys don't suddenly have amnesia when they see you move out of LOS last round.

If you are in cover or in a building, charges simulate combat teams sweeping through bunkers/buildings throwing grenades and firing at point blank range. You can't say the attacker isn't allowed to enter a building because there is a unit out of LOS within it.

Additionally, combat by it's very nature is noisy. One of the slang terms in the military is "battle rattle" It refers to the full set of gear you carry into combat (gun, helmet, vest, ammo, radio, pack, etc.) You can't pack around that many people/weaponry and not make noise when you are in full combat. Combine your gear noise with your guys constantly chattering and yelling commands to each other. It makes it almost impossible to hide ESPECIALLY if you have already fired in the game. Unless you start combat in a fixed position and never move it would be hard to justify you being "cloaked".

 

[Locutus9956]

Unless you are a special forces unit doing infiltrate I don't see any reason not to allow it.

From what Ive heard the SAS units will get a rule along those lines allowing them to sneak about undetected then pop up and slaughter some enemies :twisted:

 

[lastbesthope]

Unless you are a special forces unit doing infiltrate I don't see any reason not to allow it.

From what Ive heard the SAS units will get a rule along those lines allowing them to sneak about undetected then pop up and slaughter some enemies :twisted:

S'why I bought Brits :twisted:

LBH