Bull's Charge & Reach Weapons

[slaughterj]

The Combat Maneuver Bull's Charge enables +2 damage when charging a foe, but allows the foe an AoO. However, it seems that if one charged and attacked with a reach weapon but the target did not have one, that he would then not be able to take the AoO. Thoughts?

It seems to basically give a free +2 to damage for those using reach weapons when charging, if they meet the prereqs for Bull's Charge (and the target lacks a reach weapon). While it seems a bit cheezy to circumvent the penalty of being subject to an AoO, it seems to be a limited situation and not that big of a deal, and maybe a nice little extra benefit for those who use reach weapons.

 

[Sutek]

The opponent would still get an AoO, but he wouldn't be able to take advantage of it unless he too had a reach weapon.

Two words for you: Roman pilum.

:wink:

 

[argo]

The Combat Maneuver Bull's Charge enables +2 damage when charging a foe, but allows the foe an AoO. However, it seems that if one charged and attacked with a reach weapon but the target did not have one, that he would then not be able to take the AoO. Thoughts?

True.

It seems to basically give a free +2 to damage for those using reach weapons when charging, if they meet the prereqs for Bull's Charge (and the target lacks a reach weapon). While it seems a bit cheezy to circumvent the penalty of being subject to an AoO, it seems to be a limited situation and not that big of a deal, and maybe a nice little extra benefit for those who use reach weapons.

Well, seing as how since the invention of the pointy stick man has been looking for a way to whack the other guy without being whacked in turn... I fail to see the problem here. :wink:

 

[Sutek]

Yeah, ther are a lot more benefits to using reach weapons than I think most PCs at first realize....

 

[quigs]

Add to that there is only about 3 weapons that have reach in Conan AE that can be used on foot. Warspear, pike, and staff.

I've also found that if a character's weapons or gear is getting in the way of running challenging encounters, then you can always just take it away. It even has rules for that in the Conan AE book.

I'm planning to do it next adventure to my PC's as they are being locked away in a dungeon.

One other thing is to use the Ready action with your NPC's more often. If they are anticipating a charge or can spot characters using reach weapons, they can ready a standard action attack and get a 5 foot move along with it, provided they don't move on their turn. I can't tell you how effective the ready action is for mooks!

 

[Sutek]

Well, I've seen a tavern bench used as once, and since it was 6 feet long, I figured it had reach...lol

 

[argo]

Well, I've seen a tavern bench used as once, and since it was 6 feet long, I figured it had reach...lol

Niiiiiice 8)

 

[Andronicus]

The opponent would still get an AoO, but he wouldn't be able to take advantage of it unless he too had a reach weapon.

Two words for you: Roman pilum.

As a history lover, I feel the need to slip in a little correction. I do give Sutek points for referencing history, but I fear that isn't how the Roman pilum was used.

The Roman pilum (allowing for the fact it evolved continuingly over the long history of the Roman Empire) was mostly a javelin. It could be used as a spear in a pinch, but it was primarily meant for throwing. It was ideally suited to this purpose as it was engineered with typical Roman ingenuity. It was most remarkable to pinning sheilds it struck and breaking so it could not be thrown back at the legions.

If you are looking for examples of reach weapons doing Bull Rush type maneuvers, then the best place to look is ancient Greek hoplites. They'd weild spears anywhere from 10 to 12 feet long. Hoplite battles could devolve into glorified pushing matches.

Much later, Swiss pikemen basically reinvented the hoplites.

Just trying to be educational. And remember, REH loved history.

 

[Sutek]

True, bad example. They'd throw them and then charge in, taking advantage of the fact that the pilum would weigh down the enemy shiled allowing the jabbing attacks made with the gladius.

Maybe a Viking long axe would be a better historical reach weapon, used on the charge, that isn't jsut a pike or spear. That's what I was going for. Those axes were 6' long with 2' axe heads and were designed to chop right through enemy shields. They were devestating on the charge, but because they too were unwieldy, the warrior armed with one would have to make that initial swing count. If he missed (and even when he hit) the axe head could get stuck in the ground, in the shield or even in his enemy, nevermind being pretty big and bulky to continually swing about on the battle field.

 

[urdinaran]

I recall someone posting somewhere on this forum looong ago an NPC that used that gimick, was pretty kewl. I remember he was a Southern Islander, Barbarian/Pirate. Looked him over, but seems to me that he was only good if he charged first. Kewl NPC to throw against PCs once in a while though.

 

[Andronicus]

The Southern Islander Pirate/Barbarian is a great example of being able to make NPCs for a specific role. Not something you'd want to do full a full time PC, but specializing NPCs can be a great thing. I encourage any story teller to use and abuse that as much as possible. It can make interesting and challenging encounters for parties, without having to beef enemy stats up to enormous levels.

Sutek, I understand what you are going for with the Viking long axe. As a general rule of thumb, to effectively use reach weapons especially in mass combat, a good deal of training was needed. While some Viking armies where definately professional level, standing in ranks with reach weapons just wasn't their style.

I also feel a strange compulsion to match your viking long axe reference. Dark Ages Franks were known for using axes. These Germanic invaders of the crumbling Roman empire bore with them throwing axes. They typically hurled these into the enemy to soften them up for a charge or to break one.

This has my blood up. Once I'm done with the literature reference series I'm doing, I'm gonna do a "Ancient Tactics" one that will have ways to use it in your Conan game.