[brainstorming] Possible optional rule: Resolve

[UncleBear]

Just bouncing ideas areound here, looking for feedback.

Okay, a Code of Honor gives you a bonus on Will saves, +3 under regular circumstances and +6 vs. Corruption. If you violate your Code of Honor, you lose all benefits, period.

I'm thinking about shading this a little bit. What if there were a counterpoint to Corruption, let's call it Resolve for now. When a character successfully saves against Corruption, they gain a point of Resolve. All characters get to add this to Corruption saves -- it says, I've seen this, I've survived this, and I'm determined not to give in to this.

Characters with a Code of Honor still get +3 to will, but vs Corruption they don't get +6, they get the normal +3 plus current Resolve. If they violate their Code, rather than losing the benefits completely, they get docked Resolve points instead. It's not binary, and it allows for "shaken faith". When a character reaches 0 resolve, THEN they lose the benefits of the Code.

If a character has no Code and does something generally dispicable but not harsh enough to earn a point of Corruption, they could lose Resolve instead. Corruption doesn't have them in its grasp yet, but it's getting easier.

Characters might have both R & C, reflecting an inner conflict, and they'd cancel each other out (a character with Resolve 2 and Corruption 5 would then have a -3 penalty on Corruption saves).

This system rings true for me as a fan of Howard's Conan; the more Corruption he saw, the harder he fought against it and the better he seemed able to resist it. It was more than just upholding a Code; it was bringing to bear the sum total of his experiences in defiance.

Your .02 appreciated, as always.

 

[Pharoah Kromium]

I can see what you're getting at but I'm not sure I'll complicate it further, playtest it and let us know how it goes.

 

[ReptileJK]

Interesting idea.

In your scheme, would characters have a "base" number of resolve points acquired during generation? If they had no code of honor how would they acquire resolve in the first place? By surviving corruption checks without having a code?

Reptile

 

[UncleBear]

In your scheme, would characters have a "base" number of resolve points acquired during generation?

Nope, just like characters start with no Corruption. It's gained through exposure and experience.

If they had no code of honor how would they acquire resolve in the first place? By surviving corruption checks without having a code?

Exactly. Code of honor or not, you gain Resolve only by making a Corruption save.

 

[argo]

At first glance the mechanics seem sound enough. The only problems that spring to mind right away are:

-Too cumbersome? The corruption mechanic is fairly simple, it is one extra number on your character sheet that probably doesn't even matter too much unless you are a sorcorer. Your resolve mechanic implies a spectrum of moral strength that interacts with corruption. If your campaign deals heavily with these issues then the mechanic may be worthwhile but if the only time your players ever make a corruption save is when they witness a cult performing a dark ritual once every three sessions it may not be worthwhile. I think that the core Conan rules assume the latter situation which is why it is so easy to get that massive +6 bonus to corruption saves, because it is assumed that corruption saves are rather rare for PC's (as opposed to NPC's who are notoriously corrupt).

-Unnessicary? There is already a psuedo-mechanic for representing faith and determination: Fate Points. Remember that you can spend a fate point to absolve yourself of a point of corruption. Any time your players roleplay out their defiance of the dark truths you could reward them with a fate point which they can then use to keep their corruption in check.

In any event those are really two minor quibbles, just something to think about. I'll consider your mechanic some more but I do have to say that I like your style.

Good luck.

 

[UncleBear]

Your resolve mechanic implies a spectrum of moral strength that interacts with corruption. If your campaign deals heavily with these issues then the mechanic may be worthwhile but if the only time your players ever make a corruption save is when they witness a cult performing a dark ritual once every three sessions it may not be worthwhile. I think that the core Conan rules assume the latter situation

All of the house rules I've been writing have been primarily for use in adapting other D20 adventures for use with Conan. Because most D20 fantasy is more magic-heavy, even stripping out a lot of the magic still leaves a lot of encounters that would call for a Corruption check.

I'm working on a document detailing how I convert, and will eventually incorporate all of my assorted house rule documents into it. It all makes more sense with context.

 

[ReptileJK]

It is a neat idea.

Once you get your "House Rules Document" finished, post it on the boards here. I'd be interested in looking at a copy.

Reptile

 

[Sutek]

Being a big Joseph Campbell fan myself, I see the dichotomy you're achieving here quite nicely, but what does Resolve without Corruption gain you? In other words, say I have no Corruption, but I get Resolve for passing several Corruption saves. Isn't the "level" system accounting for some of that? Just playing devils advocate, really. I like the concept a lot and was thinking of something similar, but I figured I'd need to come up with actual effects tablees like those on pages 190-1. I'd think Resolve would still result in Minor and Major insanities, jsut as Corruption does. After all, too much Resolve can get you in just about as much trouble: "I can take those 30 Picts on single handedly...watch!!!"

 

[UncleBear]

Being a big Joseph Campbell fan myself, I see the dichotomy you're achieving here quite nicely, but what does Resolve without Corruption gain you? In other words, say I have no Corruption, but I get Resolve for passing several Corruption saves.

Good behavior is its own reward?

I haven't seriously considered any benefits other than resistance to the effects of Corruption. My intention's not to introduce an additional reward/benefit mechanic to the system.

Isn't the "level" system accounting for some of that?

I don't really think so. Sure, all Will saves go up as levels increase, but this is a very specific bonus for use under very specific circumstances.

I like the concept a lot and was thinking of something similar, but I figured I'd need to come up with actual effects tables like those on pages 190-1. I'd think Resolve would still result in Minor and Major insanities, jsut as Corruption does. After all, too much Resolve can get you in just about as much trouble: "I can take those 30 Picts on single handedly...watch!!!"

I've thought about effects tables, and I was thinking along the lines of overconfidence and similar things, but it doesn't really fit in with Conan. Evil is a palpable force. Good... not so much. What do you really get in Hyborea for choosing to do the right thing?

My intention with Resolve is as an optional mechanic for players and gamemasters who are adapting D20 fantasy adventures to Conan, which will pit characters against much more magic than the Conan RPG's designers intended them to, even if the adventure is severely toned down.
If you're running official Conan adventures (what, both of them?) or creating your own, you don't need this, but it you're adapting adventures because you're a harried, time-crunched GM but you don't want to completely mutilate the PCs, this is an option.

It's a direct response to my running Gary Gygax's Necropolis as a Conan adventure. After facing an evil Priest of Set, interfering in a human sacrifice, fighting a mummy, battling a "Devil in Iron" type golem, squaring off against a demon, and then taking on the big bad, a Xaltotun-type (sp? - the guy from Hour of the Dragon, don't have reference with me) ancient sorcerer who's been resurrected and is seeking to take over the world, my players sucked down SO much Corruption and didn't have the Fate points to slouch it off. These were characters that started at 12th level and worked their way up to 14th by the time we finished, so the had decent saves in theory. I even tried to keep it down to no more than 1 supernatural encounter per game session, replaced supernatural creatures with animals (giant crocodiles, poisonous snakes, hippos, turned werecreatures into bandits in masks, that sort of thing) to keep it more in line with the feel of Howard's Conan, and my boys still got whupped.

 

[Sutek]

What do you really get in Hyborea for choosing to do the right thing?

Um...experience points? (lol)

I mean, if you do the right thing and "thwart evil" then you get xp, level up, increase you WILL save and then it's a little easier the next time some evil needs a good solid thwarting.

It sounds like you only had maybe three or four opportunities for corruption saves though. It's possible there are actually fewer, because in your accounting of event and situations your party faced, they had to deal with corruption "fighting a devil golem" and corruption saves aren't made when fighting a threat (page 189). Although I guess "except in the context of actively attacking them or fleeing from the in terror" as the exception to when party members have to take corruption saves is a tad vague, and then there's "any cursed item". Pretty open-ended.

Another point is that corruption exists due to the palpable nature of evil in the Conan world. "Once you start down that path..." and all that. That's why Sorcerers have that 'successive save' thing to avoid Insanities. But all the insanities work equally well for power mad goodie goodie zealots - really, they do. Think of a Paladin in D&D who decides all evil starts with neutrality - if you aren't good, you're potentially evil. So he decides that a Know Alignment spell and some hacking are in order presently. Clearly Delusion, and something that might effect good spell casters.

However, I also understand the desire to have a balance and not have some infrequent game mechanic have too much effect on the game itself. You could therefore have it where Resolve can cause insanities in the same way Corruption does, but only once you have more resolve than Wisdom - desire exceeds common sense. That might work.

The better way to handle it is (A) allow protection wardings and spells as well as deflection bonuses and stuff like that grant bonuses to the corruption save. Think of it as a physical thing trying to worm it's way into the PC physically, and any positive energy would act as a "barrier". That at least is consistent with D&D mechanics. Another solution might be to develop a Feat that PCs can pick up like "Attone Sins" or somesuch that gives them the ability to collect resolve points or whatever. It could even be an assigned GM fiat that each class gets at a given experience level, different for each class (Rogues are more corruptable than Monks, Sorcerers and Wizards moreso than Fighters, etc.).