Bf evo should it be 15mm or 20mm and why

[Mr Evil]

ok the assult rifle range is around 70" on the games table ?

so are allw eapons gonna have these sorta ranges listed ? or they all gonna act like small arms, ala 40k ?

now if the minis were prepainted 15mm-20 mm ranges would feel more correct visualy.

mongoose dont want people using others minis, wich is fair enough, but then nobody produces 20mm-15mm prepainted minis for true scale wargaming, so although we may buy figs from other companies to fill holes or variety, most of our stuff would be mongoose, and in return modern wargames who play other sytems would buy mongoose figs, and in return pick up the rules, this would increase mongoose fan base and customer base.

going 15-20mm would increase mongoose sales base not reduce, they would loose a few sales to some companys and gain alot of sales from other game systm players, who may convert in time.

to me 28mm is the wrong scale for modern warfare and its the wrong choice for mini sales to the large modern wargames market. could be a financial lost opertunity in my mind. and now rakam have cornered the scfi prepainted market faster, better organised and better supported befor monggose have evan got there first box set on a shelf or to a magazine for review. rakam already have there box sets out there being reviewed and waiting at supliers for release, and they have the next 3 months worth of releases already to ship boxed and ready, !!!!!!!!!!!!


all mongoose need is battle front to produce a game set in the same period with prepainted 15mm figs and there entire market would be non existant, wich is a bit dangerouse.

im not complaining im just concerned that mongoose havnt taken the correct rout with this game and have instead done it on impulse !

 

[btom]

I agree mostly, except maybe that they should have gone for 10 or 12mm. Pains me to say it as it was GoMC1 that got me back into gaming after a long break but I will buy the rules but won't touch the miniatures. Apart from a few concerns over the tank-infantry scale discussed elsewhere I think the style and painting standard of the new miniatures are great and sooooo cheap. However, whilst I can suspend reality to play 30mm sci-fi I just can't rationalise a 30mm near future firefight on a normal size tabletop.

When my son gets older then BE will be a great, fast and cheap way to get him into gaming but for now I intend to use Minifigs 12mm units which you have to paint yourself but have the added bonus of being compatible with N Gauge railway buildings which are cheap and..... prepainted.

Mongoose are onto a winner with prepaints, Rackham have a limited generic sci-fi prepaint game, Mongoose have SST which has a much wider appeal and BE which, disregarding my own personal reservations, will be a great success - I mean how wrong can you go with painted figures for £2 each.

 

[Hiromoon]

Your idea is iffy at best, Mr Evil. The ranges are off mostly due to the fact that people don't wish to play on football field sized gaming maps, though if we were to do that, we could do a battle of Baghdad game quite easilly.

 

[roughneck GIR]

though if we were to do that, we could do a battle of Baghdad game quite easilly.

*packs shades, sunblock, and plastic shovel 8) *

T'wud be a lot of sand don't you think :shock: ? I personally like 28-30mm scale games, though thats my preference, and yes you're right too Evil :wink: ... but when it comes down to it only the final decision wins :lol:

 

[Hiromoon]

Sand, grass, rivers/water, houses. We'd have to be suspended from cranes so we don't crush small houses as we moved our men around....

 

[Mr Evil]

Your idea is iffy at best, Mr Evil. The ranges are off mostly due to the fact that people don't wish to play on football field sized gaming maps, though if we were to do that, we could do a battle of Baghdad game quite easilly.

that makes no sence ? not sure what your trying to say sorry :?

every 1" represents around a meter, modern weapons have 1,000 m ranges easy, so maybe we should have a 1000" range on weapons ?

but yeah the average game will be played on an area the size of a football pitch with tanks and air craft !!!!!! from what ive seen an area the game table represents can be cleared by bombardment in seconds !!!! wich is why a few of us have a problem with scale !!!!

 

[Mr Evil]

Sand, grass, rivers/water, houses. We'd have to be suspended from cranes so we don't crush small houses as we moved our men around....

ahh i get you now


i just think 25mm is totaly the wrong scle for modern combat games and totaly the wrong scale for mini sales..

game wise its the wrong scale

mini wise its the wrong scale

production wise its the wrong scale

and sales wise its the wrong scale.


i realy bar maybe an impuls cant see why they chose 25mm

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

BFE isn't a modern combat game, it's a Sci-fi skirmish game.

 

[Hiromoon]

i realy bar maybe an impuls cant see why they chose 25mm

I'm almost reluctant to tell you that they went with 28mm scale, Mr Evil.

 

[Mr Evil]

they call it 28mm but scale is done from ground to eye ball, and that is 25mm not 28mm

toe to top there 28mm

for gun ranges there 25mm

 

[Soulmage]

What is the point of this thread exactly???

The game is 28mm, and not going to be changed to a different scale at this point.

Why are you even talking about this, unless you're just randomly ranting?? If so, please do it elsewhere.

 

[Mr Evil]

its more an awarness thing

be nice to see a posative reason why said scale has been chosen, when evidence says its not right, id hate to see this game fail on a scale issue.

i like to promote discusuins as discusion is revolution, i hate to see the fact 28mm was chosen as people felt a bit sheepish by going another scale.

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

Well it depends on what you're going for in a game. BFE seems to be aimed at bringing the cool factor of modern-near future tech to a mini scale normally reserved for SF skirmish games. Given the simplistic nature of the rules I doubt it's going to be an overly realistic simulation.

And there's nothing wrong with that, I'm really looking forward to it

 

[witteridderludo]

My friend and I have the same reservations about this. Using 28mm figures by itself is not the real problem, nice for skirmishing, but when you add tanks and, heaven forbid', on table air support, it just doesn't look and feel right. Too 40K for me.

We will be picking up the game because we like the SST rules. But that's where it'll end for Mongoose. We are looking at 20mm, most of the stuff can be bought in about any toy store for a fraction of the cost. This is not the big issue though as we're both working adults, but picking up an army for about the price of one box of prepaints... :wink:

I started on my first army, I bought a Revell Fennek (German Scout car) that will be used as an RST-V. Now all I need is a box of soldiers and an Abrams.
And a box or two of "Modern urban resitors" by Ceasar, a few bombed out appartment buildings and hey, it's Teheran in 2011.

Nice as the Mongoose figures seem to be and the fact that you can play out of the box would really help me (really slow painter), I'll pass for once.

 

[gorkamorka]

It would be a good idea to come out with a smaller scale, so when the mass combat rules come out, the market is already covered. It is a relevent discussion in that modern weapons are a SLIGHTLY bit different then playing civil war combat, or nepoleonic wars. There is the indirect fire suppport weaponry, air/land combat doctrine, as well as large scale tank warfare of the kind that opens up for this sort of a game. Combine that with the modern battlefield tempo of combat, leads one to think that at some point, a couple of squads and a tank (for 85 bones) won't cut it.

Thinking outside of the box as for a market is a good thing, even if others out there might not think so. Axis and Allies suprisingly being from WOTC is a very good game that leads one to believe that a modern combat game is in the works, and could easily corner the already dim market for minis games. If someone doesn't move on it, doesn't mean others can't.
If it is a option, at least the option is there for people to choose from, and you hold a hand out for those who are at least looking at the car on the lot.

Its a good idea, even for a standpoint of trying something new.

 

[SnowDog]

every 1" represents around a meter, modern weapons have 1,000 m ranges easy, so maybe we should have a 1000" range on weapons ?

but yeah the average game will be played on an area the size of a football pitch with tanks and air craft !!!!!! from what ive seen an area the game table represents can be cleared by bombardment in seconds !!!! wich is why a few of us have a problem with scale !!!!

True, modern weapons have quite long ranges and that 1000" range is not that far fetched, except that engagements still doesn't normally occur at such long distances. First of all there is terrain, that alone restricts the effective range of weapons. Then there is accuracy. Sure you can hit your human sized target with an assault rifle maybe even to one click if you are lucky and/or have braced your rifle and have taken good aim. I suppose there are a lot of psychological aspects as well to take into consideration but I don't know about those enough to even begin to guess.

Now, I am not claiming to be a combat vet so take the above statement as you will.

What comes to gaming tables, you are right, there are precious few of us who has large gaming tables (I'm not one of them).

Otherwise I'm comfortable with the scale although 20mm would have been nice too...

 

[hegemon]

from my time in the army, on exercises we never engaged battle until we were at most 300 metres away, after all not everyone can see at 300m's hell some had trouble with 100.

what my question is will there be rules for FISH, after all every good soldier likes abit of FISH

 

[jmatrica]

Maybe I am bucking the trend but I am moving from my 15mm Peter Pig AK47 figs to Battlefield Evolution and plan to get rid of all of my 15mm stuff. I have dabbled in the smaller scales and will continue to do so but they just don't inspire me anymore. I find that 28mm figs have a more dramatic presentation on the tabletop, plus I have lots of terrain for that scale. I also have access to an 8 x 4 foot table so I am not too worried about the weapon ranges.

 

[DM]

I'll be using the rules with 15mm figures (mostly Peter Pig, so if you are looking for somewhere to offload your 15s I may be interested )

15mm prepainted would go down a storm with the guys I know who play AK47 Republic!

 

[BuShips]

My first reaction was the same as Mr Evil's, as using units like Main Battle Tanks and aircraft in 28mm scale seemed to me to be a bit large-ish (yeah, I know that's probably not a word), but if the play-testers and Mongoose are happy with the rules using 28mm sized units, I don't see where we'll really have a problem when the game is in our hands. If it was going to be "clumsy" playing the game, they would have noticed it, I'd venture. Regardless, it is a bit late for this discussion as I'm sure Mongoose has already spent their treasure on the miniatures production. I'll admit I raised an eyebrow when the scale was announced, as I thought it would be in the 15mm scale category. All of this is really dependant upon the rules, and because it was based on SST it would make some sense to keep within that scale consistency.