Locutus9956
Mongoose
Now heres an intersting idea Ive had, enter these two polls....
B5 Wars vs ACTA poll 1
- Thread starter Locutus9956
- Start date
Locutus9956
Mongoose
bump, the results are actually quite interesting so far if you look at all 3 
Captain Kremmen
Mongoose
B5Wars was a nice idea, and their original ship models were excellent.
BUT
The game was rubbish, it took all day to play a game with one ship. Basically useless.
If you don't believe me look at the facts. AOG went bust and mongoose haven't! ACTA is a very good game.
All IMHO of course
Cpt Kremmen
BUT
The game was rubbish, it took all day to play a game with one ship. Basically useless.
If you don't believe me look at the facts. AOG went bust and mongoose haven't! ACTA is a very good game.
All IMHO of course
Cpt Kremmen
Well I've seen a few of the ship sheets for B5 wars and have had Tank and Adam describe gameplay...I'm voting for ACTA.
(mainly cause I like shorter games - not that I necessarily think B5Wars is really lame...)
EDIT (Woah! Mis-read the question...I voted for the game I *like* the best, sorry!) ....to actually answer the question I would have to abstain because personally I'm not that huge a fan of the show...(*puts on flame-retardant suit*)
(mainly cause I like shorter games - not that I necessarily think B5Wars is really lame...)
EDIT (Woah! Mis-read the question...I voted for the game I *like* the best, sorry!) ....to actually answer the question I would have to abstain because personally I'm not that huge a fan of the show...(*puts on flame-retardant suit*)
I immediately realised my error and began to edit my post...only to find Burger had read and responded since then! DOH!
(EDIT: In my defence the poll is titled B5Wars vs ACTA which may be confusing...if like me you only read poll titles and don't bother reading the rest of the post
)
(EDIT: In my defence the poll is titled B5Wars vs ACTA which may be confusing...if like me you only read poll titles and don't bother reading the rest of the post
)Slightly Norse John
Mongoose
B5W seemed heavily influenced by games like Star Fleet Battles, which was just horrible. The micro-management both involved was very accountant- like; those simply are not the decisions a warship captain should have to make. That's what bridge crew are for.
Well from B5Wars tellings, i never played....
It looks like B5Wars is the simulation, and ACTA the fastpaced wargame.
So what feels like the show? Prolly more acta, simply because it plays faster. If you recalc, B5Wars might be more like it, cause everything plays slower, but still blows up fast.....
So i abstain, as i havent played, so ic ant say what felt more appropriate of the show....
It looks like B5Wars is the simulation, and ACTA the fastpaced wargame.
So what feels like the show? Prolly more acta, simply because it plays faster. If you recalc, B5Wars might be more like it, cause everything plays slower, but still blows up fast.....
So i abstain, as i havent played, so ic ant say what felt more appropriate of the show....
One to three lumbering ships per side, Newtonian movement: B5W. (Yes, I'm aware that many people don't think the show had Newtonian movement, I've had this argument before.)
How many times do more than 2 ships (not including fighters) appear on the screen at once? How about 20? How many ships were on the board in your last game of ACtA?
As for the "AOG went bust" argument: AOG lost the B5 license, which meant they had to destroy their copies of B5W merchandise. That had been their main source of revenue. Of course they went bust. Are you saying WB (?) pulled the license because they thought the game sucked? (And if Mongoose's revenues had ever depended entirely on their first miniatures product, Mighty Armies, do you think they would still be around?)
How many times do more than 2 ships (not including fighters) appear on the screen at once? How about 20? How many ships were on the board in your last game of ACtA?
As for the "AOG went bust" argument: AOG lost the B5 license, which meant they had to destroy their copies of B5W merchandise. That had been their main source of revenue. Of course they went bust. Are you saying WB (?) pulled the license because they thought the game sucked? (And if Mongoose's revenues had ever depended entirely on their first miniatures product, Mighty Armies, do you think they would still be around?)
Captain Kremmen said:
Well....that's cutting to the chase. And against my better judgement I'll have to counter. Some of this will be a repeat but then it bears repeating.
Agents of Gaming went bust AFTER Warner pulled their license. It was their ONLY major product. Of course they went bust when they couldn't make use of it anymore. (Ask Decipher what it was like when Warner pulled their license on their Babylon 5 CCG. Based on your assessment, that game must have been "rubbish" as well since they went bust as well). Considering B5Wars was essentially AOG's only product and it carried the AoG for years, I'd say it was a booming success.
That being said....it was also very clear that Agents of Gaming's time with B5Wars was beginning to wane. Sales were starting to drop as they were forced to move out of the mainstream Babylon 5 (Abbai, EA, Drazi, Centauri, Narn, etc of the show era) and move into material based solely on opinion and educated guesses (like historical material such as the Orieni War). This kind of stuff can't take as much advantage of the TV series since its documenting things that never appear on the set.
It also very clear that you don't like the idea of a slow playing game revolving around one ship. Here's a recommendation, don't ever buy or play Attack Vector. If you think B5Wars is slow with only one ship, AV could very well kill you. Star Fleet Battles is also better left alone though Federation Commader might not be to bad for your interests.
I like B5Wars.....I thinks its really one of the better space combat games out there. Admittedly, I'm biased. I've written material and have had two suppliments published for the system. I've also written a stand alone suppliment for it as well as conjectured a number of other units and posted them for review on the web. I've written articles for the various fan generated web-published magazines (there have been two sets for B5Wars, ACTA's has ?????. Sorry! That was snide but couldn't be resisted). There are also many others like me who have contributed web material and expended allot of time and effort to its continutation. That would seem hard to believe if the game "...was rubbish, it took all day to play a game with one ship. Basically useless."
So take it easy was such broad sweeping generalizations. Your opinions of merit but when they are used to generalize or denegrate as in this case, they can loose meaning and just becomes a buzz to be ignored. There are alot of us out there who are B5Wars fans that also happen to like ACTA's. We don't appreciate the manner/tone of this post.
Speaking of which. I like ACTA's. Its a bit too simplistic for my taste and has a bit too much of a Battlefleet Gothic feel to it but I still like it. I want to see it continue and improve. There are times when I want to take a fleet of ships instead of a single ship or small task group. I want to flame away against a massive opposing order of battle and watch ships die at the crack of a die. Just not always. I also like the slow whittling away of a ship, as first one weapon system is knocked off line and then the next. I like having to roll the ship to bring its starboard side weapons to the port. Deciding whether to charge my heavy laser for sustained fire or regular. Deciding if I should close for better percentage of hits and risk taking incoming fire or do I fire now, risking more misses and return damage while my weapons recharge. I like these things. They also tend to slow the game down, especially if more than one ship is involved. Its the price you pay for those details.
You clearly do not like these aspects. Cool! I can understand that. I can understand why you woudn't. The fact that you don't like those aspects does not make the game "rubbish" or "basically useless." It simply makes it a game you do not wish to play. Its symantics but its important to understand in this case.
--- Rich
Have ACTA, haven't played it yet. Old fan of B5 Wars. Which one does a better job of reflecting the show? Depends on the episode!
Most of the original battles were individual ships or small groups of them. ACTA does the Battle of the Line or Corianna VI better, without a doubt.
B5 Wars does a duel between a White Star and a Shadow ship or a small task force of Clarke loyalists attacking B5 better.
It's all scale.
Hope to play ACTA some time in the future, haven't had as much time to play these days as I used to. But I really love the fan support for B5 Wars - several professional game designers cut their teeth on it. Great, great stuff out there for the older system.
I'm hoping to see more of that in the future for ACTA.
Also the licenses were different - B5 Wars didn't have the newer stuff, such as Crusade. I like ACTA's take on the Centauri better, and like the fact it's got more room for expansion, such as the Armageddon line and the Victory's and Drakh.
Most of the original battles were individual ships or small groups of them. ACTA does the Battle of the Line or Corianna VI better, without a doubt.
B5 Wars does a duel between a White Star and a Shadow ship or a small task force of Clarke loyalists attacking B5 better.
It's all scale.
Hope to play ACTA some time in the future, haven't had as much time to play these days as I used to. But I really love the fan support for B5 Wars - several professional game designers cut their teeth on it. Great, great stuff out there for the older system.
I'm hoping to see more of that in the future for ACTA.
Also the licenses were different - B5 Wars didn't have the newer stuff, such as Crusade. I like ACTA's take on the Centauri better, and like the fact it's got more room for expansion, such as the Armageddon line and the Victory's and Drakh.
Or we could try this idea...
How about if the thread topic is one that you aren't interested in, you don't read it, you don't kvetch about it, and you sure as hell don't post in it?
Gee, thanks, that would be swell!
This isn't a monopolization of the forum, plenty of ACTA content out there for you. And this is conversation about ACTA compared to other games, specifically one set in the same universe. All sorts of corollaries there.
How about if the thread topic is one that you aren't interested in, you don't read it, you don't kvetch about it, and you sure as hell don't post in it?
Gee, thanks, that would be swell!
This isn't a monopolization of the forum, plenty of ACTA content out there for you. And this is conversation about ACTA compared to other games, specifically one set in the same universe. All sorts of corollaries there.
Captain Kremmen
Mongoose
rbax,
I agree with pretty much everything you say. My comments were well beyone one of my usual simplifications. I'll retract my comments.
And I do remember the wonderful work you used to do for B5Wars, quite superb.
You are quite right basically B5Wars was a nice game if you wanted to play with one ship. Not practical with much more than that in a reasonable timeframe.
I tended to collect the books and ships because I was interested in B5. With ACTA I do the same but also find the game simple and fun to play
Krummy Kremmen
I agree with pretty much everything you say. My comments were well beyone one of my usual simplifications. I'll retract my comments.
And I do remember the wonderful work you used to do for B5Wars, quite superb.
You are quite right basically B5Wars was a nice game if you wanted to play with one ship. Not practical with much more than that in a reasonable timeframe.
I tended to collect the books and ships because I was interested in B5. With ACTA I do the same but also find the game simple and fun to play
Krummy Kremmen
<B5Wars & ACTA Part 1 of 3>
I think B5Wars feels more distinctive, and more Babylon 5-ish for that reason. But in terms of exact fidelity to the show, I'm not sure and I don't really care to be honest. I loved B5, but I've really never gotten the idea of wanting a game to conform exactly to what you see on screen. What I like about B5 has to do with the characters, plot, and universe, not the exact combat mechanics. Ironically, in fact, I got into the universe originally through B5Wars, not the show, then went back to watch the show and loved it. So I'm not sure which is more faithful to exactly what you see on screen, but B5Wars gives a very distinct, unique feel that you can't really find in any other game I've seen. It makes it complicated, sure, but also very enjoyable if you're in the mood for something complicated and are playing in a friendly enough session (or often enough for me, with myself) that you can take shortcuts and play it faster. ACTA is a great, fun and fast-paced game but it doesn't convey a dramatically different feel from a slew of other space combat games, it just does the same feel better (IMO).
I think B5Wars feels more distinctive, and more Babylon 5-ish for that reason. But in terms of exact fidelity to the show, I'm not sure and I don't really care to be honest. I loved B5, but I've really never gotten the idea of wanting a game to conform exactly to what you see on screen. What I like about B5 has to do with the characters, plot, and universe, not the exact combat mechanics. Ironically, in fact, I got into the universe originally through B5Wars, not the show, then went back to watch the show and loved it. So I'm not sure which is more faithful to exactly what you see on screen, but B5Wars gives a very distinct, unique feel that you can't really find in any other game I've seen. It makes it complicated, sure, but also very enjoyable if you're in the mood for something complicated and are playing in a friendly enough session (or often enough for me, with myself) that you can take shortcuts and play it faster. ACTA is a great, fun and fast-paced game but it doesn't convey a dramatically different feel from a slew of other space combat games, it just does the same feel better (IMO).
Though I'm unsure of the validity of the quote…but I always get a chuckle out of what agent1 had as his quote on the official B5Wars forum: “The Whitestar moves at the speed of the plot.” –JMS
Ha-ha…if you watch “In the Beginning”, Hyperion cruisers are seen to soak up multiple neutron laser hits (Lexington) without being completely hulled; conversely there are instances where Hyperion cruisers blew up after a single neutron laser hit. This theme is common throughout the show.
Big, small…play what you like; I’ll take Fleet Action.
Ha-ha…if you watch “In the Beginning”, Hyperion cruisers are seen to soak up multiple neutron laser hits (Lexington) without being completely hulled; conversely there are instances where Hyperion cruisers blew up after a single neutron laser hit. This theme is common throughout the show.
Big, small…play what you like; I’ll take Fleet Action.
Iain McGhee
Mongoose
ACTA.
B5 wars was a decent enough game but took far, far too long to play if you had more than a handful of ships on the table. I couldn't really pick one over the other in terms of accuracy as ACTA streamlines a lot of stuff
(especially rules and damage) to allow for large-scale fleet games although it 'feels' right to me most of the time.
B5 wars was a decent enough game but took far, far too long to play if you had more than a handful of ships on the table. I couldn't really pick one over the other in terms of accuracy as ACTA streamlines a lot of stuff
(especially rules and damage) to allow for large-scale fleet games although it 'feels' right to me most of the time.
